Ali Hill

Welcome to the Financial Secrets Revealed podcast episode where Amanda Cassar introduces Alison Hill, CEO of Pragmatic Thinking and host of the Stand Out Life Podcast and The Business of People. 

I first met Ali through the fabulous Australian networking group Business Chicks, where I admired from afar as she trekked off to Malawi with The Hunger Project and built her firm with hubby Darren into a AFR Fast 100 company.

Ali is a fellow Gold Coaster, mum, chief Head Mechanic, author, speaker, and podcaster, and features regularly in the media.

Ali shares her personal and business journey including financial setbacks and having to revisit her own money story after relocating interstate and how she now manages her money.

“We now keep a close eye on the figures, work out where to invest in the business and make sure our ‘business and life’ strategy meets our family’s needs.” – Alison Hill.

Links
Ali Hill (alisonhill.com.au)  (Speaking Website)  

‎Stand Out Life on Apple Podcasts (Stand Out Life Podcast)

Alison Hill | LinkedIn (LinkedIn profile)

Pragmatic Thinking - Lead Better | Leadership Training (Corporate Website)

The Business of People Podcast | Pragmatic Thinking  The Business of People Podcast  

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Financial Secrets Revealed: Cassar, Amanda: Amazon.com.au: Books

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Financial Secrets Revealed, Collective Wisdom from Business Gurus, Financial Geniuses and Everyday Heroes by Amanda Cassar | 9781925648546 | Booktopia

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Follow 

Catch up with Amanda Cassar, host of Financial Secrets Revealed on Twitter and Instagram @financechicks or on LinkedIn at Amanda Cassar | LinkedIn

Websites: 

• https://amandacassar.com.au/ 
• https://www.wealthplanningpartners.com.au/ (company website)
• https://trustedagedcare.com.au/ (company website)

Or follow Ali’s adventures on Twitter @alihilltweet or Instragram @alihill 

Transcript

Intro: 0:06

Hi, I am Amanda Cassar and welcome to the Financial Secrets Revealed podcast where I have collected the wisdom from some amazing people around the world to understand better their money story. I have financial advisors, multimillion dollar corporate executives and those surviving on Centrelink even running global charities. I hope you enjoy listening to the episodes as I speak with these incredible people about their stories.

Amanda: 0:45

Hello, and welcome to the Financial Secrets Revealed podcast. Today I am joined by the lovely Ali Hill who goes by the title Psychologist, Head Mechanic and CEO of Pragmatic Thinking thank you for joining us Ali.

Ali: 1:01

Awesome to be hanging out with you, I wannna know these

Amanda: 1:11

To funny! Now Ali and I first connected through the wonderful tribe that is Business Chicks and I'm trying to think how far back it would be I think maybe 2013-2014 around there. I think it was just prior you were, had met up with the Hunger secrets too! Project and we're off to Malawi for their immersion program. I think I'd signed up for that t ip but the wheels fell off and y ah I did one later but yeah, i was it was fabulous. l stening to your reminisces and t at journey Do you still have f nd memories of that time in A rica

Ali: 1:44

Oh it was so amazing. It was one of those ones that had been on my bucket list for a while, saying like I wanna, I wanna do that trip. So, and it's not an easy trip to say yes to as you know you've got to raise$10,000 and then take the tim off like that's probabl the big thing as well as pay o go, and it was just, I just emember waking up and instea of almost having the start f the year going why not this y ar, let's just do it and have crack so the experience was l fe changing because you know ou just you, you open up your eyes to possibilities and I abso utely still think about that One of the things I think abo t is resourcefulness, you ge

Amanda: 2:25

Yeah faced with what people can o with so little and yet I feel ike I have so much so whenever I feel like oh I can't do it, ctually I've got the resources

Ali: 2:37

Who can I tap into. So that's probably one of the legacies that stuck with me.

Amanda: 2:41

Amazing lessons. Yeah I got a bit addicted to the trip. I'm so disappointed now with the world locked down that we can't do those anymore but.. And I think thinking about the resilience that, you

Ali: 2:51

yeah know, learning about leadership from the poorest people in the world is that the last place you'd think to look and I think that's put us probably both in very good stead. We're locked down in a pandemic it's very easy to think oh my life's over I have to wear a mask and I can't go to the supermarket. I know, while I walk along the beach and sip my latte.

Amanda: 3:15

Yeah exactly! so you know I think we you know you look back and go you know what is these people over there overcoming odds that to you and I would be insurmountable and making little entrepreneurial businesses and living life and yeah, it's beautiful perspective to be able to have and carry forward through this time.

Ali: 3:32

Yeah, but don't you remember as well one of the things that struck me was that they worry about the same things you and I do like, are our kids going to marry the right people? Are they going to be healthy and happy? Like it's the same thing regardless of kind of context or what else is going on? There's this, this commonality that we share that yeah again really struck me.

Amanda: 3:56

As mothers and yeah, little business people and just you met humans? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Now you run a company called Pragmatic Thinking that's been lucky enough to get into the, was it the AFR Fast 100 or BRW? I'm getting all my acronyms mucked up now.

Ali: 4:14

It used to be BRW but it's now AFR Fast 100. And we got into that three years in a row, back to back.

Amanda: 4:20

Fantastic. Can you tell us a little bit about Pragmatic Thinking and what you do there?

Ali: 4:25

Yeah, so it's a behavior and motivation strategy company, which is a lot of words that people go I know what they mean, but I don't really know what you do. But essentially, we...

Amanda: 4:35

Coaching? Yeah, absolutely. And I know you've done a couple of

Ali: 4:36

Yeah. sounds a little bit like it. So my background is a psychologist. So really using the science of human behavior. We work with corporates going through change around leadership development, and cultural change. So everything from leadership training, to looking at shifting kind of cultural rhythms and traditions as well as how can you get the best out of your team. So it's really varied. We work with organizations and a whole range of different industries, from the finance sector to health, to government, to manufacturing. So really a whole range of different industries. But the commonality is, how do you how do you connect best with people? How do you motivate people? And how do you have the books as well about handling those tough conversations. I get conversations with them when they're not motivated. up to the part where I'm supposed to do something I think I'll put that down now and have a cup of tea. it's too tough. Just give them the book.

Amanda: 5:34

Cos' then it'll really get done. So I'm glad you've got this psychological background that I can pick your brains on. Now one of my favorite questions to ask everyone is about what was life like, growing up? You know, what did mom and dad do? And what were the lessons that were spoken or unspoken around money? So can you fill us in a little bit about the early days of Ali?

Ali: 6:04

This is such a great question and in the context of finances and money and what we're taught, what we pick up is it's so interesting. So I grew up with both of my parents were public servants. So my dad I think is probably one of the he was one of the last of those get a job for an entire career. He worked with state forests of New South Wales so in the forestry department 42 years.

Amanda: 6:33

Wow, i hope he got a gold watch at the end of that.

Ali: 6:37

He got a wooden axe which was apt. That's right. So, and we moved around. We lived in beautiful kind of places but it was very much you you do the time you get promoted because you've been there for a length of time. Until, and I do remember him hitting a point where that started to stop. That stability of your jet, you're guaranteed a promotion where you had to actually kind of pitch yourself and be pitted up against other people and the politics sort of state came into play and my dad was very much not one to push back. He would sort of toe the line and do his job and hope to be seen of value. So I guess that message of you know, work hard and you'll be recognised was what I heard from my parents but I also then saw that actually sometimes you won't be recognised. Even if you are good and reliable and loyal in a job and then my mom was a teacher so she again because we moved around quite a bit she that gave her the flexibility to get casual work. She was basically a stay at home mom for about 10 years with us three kids and then was able to pick up for casual work and then got permanent work as a mostly in primary schools. And her last couple of years of working she worked with kids with emotional disturbances so she got qualified qualified in there and it's a tough gig in small country towns when you know families and know the kids, but again it was very much, you don't negotiate pay you just get paid what you paid. And in for both mum and dad they were able to get a little bit of additional money either through say dad at fire time, which was generally around Christmas period he would get overtime for for working a fire season. So then we had Christmas days where he would only be home for half a day. But it was good money. So and then mum casual teaching was good money as well as opposed to you know, single kind of days that she would often say yes, and they would get work that way but it was only recently my brothers and I were remembering that both my parents used to do the census when that came around as well. So there would be next year they would drive out back in the Paper Paper and pen day so they would have to drive and we lived in a small country town so they still have to go to these really quite remote places of driveways. We thought there was one house and then you found there were four and 50 people living there but they don't want to be found.

Amanda: 9:13

Off the grid.

Ali: 9:14

That kind of thing and so we as kids would , you know, sit in the car and open fences and drop off pieces of paper and then you'd have to go back and collect them and remember asking dad only a couple of months ago and said How much did you get paid for that dad? and he said oh maybe a $1,000 but that would be like an entire weekend to go and do that so yeah, it was, we would never wanted for anything. We we went on amazing family holidays. We had family who lived in Singapore that we all went visited once and another family who my auntie had married a Tongan and they had a big family reunion. And so we went as a family. So my parents really I feel like they kind of saved for those experiences. As I said, we never wanted for anything but I did have a sense that there wasn't extra money like there was there was enough but there wasn't anything above and beyond a mum and dad. Yeah, I think worked really hard but very much in that in that public sector mentality.

Amanda: 10:14

Yeah and when you left school you decided to do that traditional gap year that was so popular in the 80s and 90s and took yourself off backpacking through Europe. How did that affect you and change your perspective on things?

Ali: 10:27

Yeah, again I look back at it now and I think if my daughter comes to me and says I wanna go away. Then again thi k about this this is pre mobi e phones, pre social media. Go na go to the other side of he world where you'll get one ph ne call a week. I'm not sur I would have said y

Amanda: 10:45

My parents actually said no, you're not doing that.

Ali: 10:49

Yeah. And again financially, they, not only did they say yes to me but they supported it. And so so it was a gap year. I worked at a private school over in the UK as a teacher's aide. But really that was kind of minimal money. But they, you know, obviously they put me up food and food and board were included, but it just gave me the chance to kind of see, see the world and I did the Conitki tour through Europe. Backpacked around Ireland and Scotland and just loved it just, you know, just adored that time. And got to, I think experience the world but also the tradition of a gap year and I would thoroughly recommend it, if anyone's thinking of it. But that ability to then come back into study meant that I was I was really clear on what I wanted to do and, and was ready to get into it.

Amanda: 11:45

So you've gone from this very traditional conservative Mum, Dad, the three children, to having your experiences and then going into this entrepreneurial space with your partner to running your own business. I mean, they're very diametrically opposed. How did that leap happen? What, what happened in that space?

Ali: 12:05

Yeah, I married the right person. That happened. And we've actually only talking this morning that I think if I hadn't married Darren, so his upbringing was very different. His parents were small business owners, they owned everything from, you know, they ran catering businesses to coffee shops, to the local general stores, and you know, worked 90 hour weeks, kids worked in in those setups and spaces. And so he'd seen small business and I guess always had that entrepreneur, kind of mindset and spirit where I knew even when I left uni, I went into a government job. So I was going down the same path, right? Yeah, it's my parents stable, you know, the superannuation is going to be good. You know, th y'd look after you from you now, there was this perception, and rightfully so. Maternity le ve and all of that it's going to be much more stable. So h w did that transition, I was ctually on maternity leave. Whe Yeah, and Darren was wor ing with a government agency. We were based up in Darwin at the t me. And we were looking a training, particularly train ng around, you know, these peopl's skills. It's just so lacking in workplaces. And Darw n was such a fantastic bree ing ground because it's a, it i a capital city. So it' got every territory and federal government departments huge de ense town. And yet it's a high transition towns. So in terms of being good as a training p ovider, it wasn't hard to be go d, because there's quite a lot f turnover of staff and pe ple coming through. So we ki d of said, we'll look w ile I'm on maternity leave, nd getting half pay from the government from my job. How abo t I we set this up, and we sort f, we gave ourselves the task that if we could earn the ame as our salary in 12 months then then it's worth the experi ent. So we can get the sam amount of income from the bus ness as we would from from our ages, then then it's worth the xperiment. It was a it was a immediate transition. Obviousl, I was on that leave. Darre was still working for probably ix months, we literally boxed ff our TV. And when Pat went do n at night time, we would et to work writing programs and esign them up so well and then D n will get up and go to work during the day. And I would wor obviously at 3am those kind of um things. And so it did get t a point where we got enough inq iries where it was time for Darr n to leave his job but again, we we did that with a safety n t. He took six months of leave ithout pay was able to take, he d stored up all these annual eaves, so had eight weeks of annual leave, which he took it h lf pay for 16 weeks. So we ver much kind of had these bac stops. But we found we were a le to get the revenue we were ho ing to get in six months in 12 onths. We did it in six month. And so that then beca e the oh there's something he e and what can we build on wha can we grow from there. So we id get to a point where we it wa time to burn the bridge, so to speak, to actually resig from both of our jobs. And we j st knew, in a lot of ways, it was a no risk, we could go bac to those jobs or similar t pes of jobs if we needed to. B t it just gave us the flexibil ty to do the kind of work we wa ted to do and and decide on the ays and the times that we we did it. So that

Amanda: 15:49

Especially with a little growing family that's perfect gives you a bit of flexibility. Now outside looking in it all sounds like you've lived a bit of a charmed life. You know, everything was good. It's lovely. You've got this lovely husband now you starting a business, you've got the babies have the wheels ever fallen off or things gone bad or you've had any financial setbacks? Now it's time to lift the lid. Give us a bit of dirt.

Ali: 16:13

Hell yes, Amanda, of course. You know the answer to this one, like, I think and again, Darwin was such a great

Amanda: 16:21

Don 't they know who you are? training ground. So we we we just had this year on year increase where each year we we sort of doubled our revenue. And that kind of grew through word of mouth, it grew through contacts and relationships that we had. And about four years

Ali: 16:38

And they didn't! into it, we decided it was time for us to move down back down to the east coast, back to be closer to family. So we we left Darwin and we moved to where e are now here on the Gold Coas. But we were incredibly naive, e I look back at it now. And I g

Amanda: 16:54

I don't know why., we had absolutely no handle n our finances, we had no, all e kind of knew was top li e revenue. And we would kind f look at profits. And you kno, we'd go to our accountant a d go aah you made this much profit, we look in our bank and we go, why is it not sitting n our bank account. That doesn t make sense. You just told us w made this profit and we've got no money. In fact, we were just completely naive. And weren t looking at it. And we moved down. And we arrived on the Gol Coast. And honestly, I t ink we just not that we conscio

Ali: 17:26

But we put on a staff member we'd hired and we'd sly but I think we just thoug t that when we arrived, peo le would know that we'd arr ved and they would come knocki g on our door. rented an office over in Coolangatta. And we just were waiting for the work to come in. And we were getting worked back in Darwin. So Darren was flying up two weeks out of every month with two young kids. At this stage, I was just mainly doing the back end work not not delivering. And but just it took us six months to realise we were bleeding money. That we had no idea on just how much it was costing us. And so we were in in absolute survival mode. And it was only when I went to go and pay bills that I realized we didn't have enough money in the bank account. That I'd be stressing walking around, Darren will go, have we got financial problems?Yeah, and the kicker came when, you know, for nearly two years we hadn't done a tax return. And of course, we got a 50 grand tax bill.

Amanda: 18:39

Ouch.

Ali: 18:40

Just because we hadn't we hadn't looked.

Amanda: 18:43

because you had that sitting there waiting?

Ali: 18:45

Yeah we'd had all this money come in. When we when we. Yeah, so. So that was the perfect awakening. As you I'm sure you've heard from talking with people that it's these financial setbacks that actually give you the best lessons that I think if someone had told us know your numbers and and be aware, put aside money for tax, we would have gone Yeah, yeah. And I'm sure someone probably had. Until you get that kind of bill, until you had this sinking in your gut feeling till it becomes a big enough priority. Then Then, of course that then hits you home. It's a much bigger lesson. So we sat down and we looked at we realised we're paying for a staff member in an office. And Darren's away for two weeks and that's all that that trip is by covering his his rent and the staff member and we're not making anything How about and he stopped traveling and we get rid of both of those. And we come back and we just start again.

Amanda: 19:48

Well, they do say rock bottom is a very solid foundation to move forward.

Ali: 19:51

Yeah, yeah. And trees beknown. We weren't like it wasn't destitute or anything like that, but it was the perfect awakening. And just that recognition that working hard doesn't equal making money, even when you're looking at top line revenue. So yeah, that was just such a such an eye opener.

Amanda: 20:13

So looking back at those naive, wide eyed, lovely young entrepreneurs, what lessons, you know, do you wish you had under your belt or had learned or been told or taken on board when starting out in business, new family, moving to the other side of the country? What What things do you wish you'd known or done?

Ali: 20:33

Yeah, I mean, again, I don't regret anything. And I, like I said, I think any experience you'd learn from it, but what did I? Now if I went back, and I'd give that advice, it would be to really know your numbers. So understand what that means. Where does money go to understand the difference between profit and take home, that profit is just to this beautiful theory that sits on a P&L sheet, but it's not the money in your bank account. So cash, and cash is king. And to really understand, what does that mean having that money aside for tax, again, recognising that the privilege of paying tax is that you are making money, and that that's not necessarily a bad thing. But I think it's that regular checking in not being scared or of. If I look back on it and not only that circumstance, but other circumstances, even when we started to go into fast growth, growth is very expensive, as you know, like it, it costs money to grow a business to be putting on staff. And there was definitely a period where we were at our highest staffing, about 21 staff, probably our highest revenue, but we were hardly making money because the cost of the business that needed to run, we weren't focusing on we weren't lean in terms of where we were spending money on printing, or those sorts of things. Because it was just really focused on growth and not focused on profitability, or those kind of margins. So I think not being scared of looking under the hood, is what I'd go back and tell myself and it's only when you understand your current position, that you can then make really good decisions moving forward.

Amanda: 22:25

So did you just sort of sit down one day and scribble it all out on a piece of paper and go write this what we need to do? Or did you think of partnering with any financial professionals? How did you then move forward with the business to turn things around?

Ali: 22:37

Yeah, it was probably about then, that we met an amazing accountant. And we've been through a few different accountants. But we met someone who really became a business partner in a lot of ways. So really understood what we were trying to do with the business, but also who we were as being for Darren and I are being married and in business together and having kids so really understand standing financially, what did we want for our family, but also the time and effort we want to get out of the business. So that and yeah, we've been without accounting for the last eight years. And that has been like the third partner in our business. We have quarterly check ins, where and Darren, I love it every single time we go in, it's almost like, we we get our ass kicked when we need to get our ass kicked. We need to pull our head in and focus on things again. And then there are other times we'll go in feeling a bit beaten up, and we'll walk out going No, no, no, like things are good. we're on the right track, and we've got a pathway forward. So absolutely getting a really good financial support, whether that's an accountant, or someone who can guide you through figures what it means and and some of those key decisions when it comes to business, which then obviously then flows into personal wealth.

Amanda: 24:05

Yeah,I think that's really important. I suppose more the accountability, isn't it that you know, you have to front up and put out as much.

Ali: 24:12

And they go, where did this money go? And what's going on over here? And they would say to us, you're allowed to put on one person, we come back and go, we've hired three, is that OK? OK,we'll figure that out.

Amanda: 24:27

Too funny. So how do you think out I suppose our upbringing and our beliefs can either limit us or open us up to opportunities, getting down into your psychological background. Do you think how our upbringing and those spoken or unspoken lessons that we've seen Do you think they impact us over time?

Ali: 24:44

100% I mean, you're probably speaking to someone who's to be biased. But I think, yeah, that that question you asked about what what were we told or not told about money growing up is such a powerful reflection for anyone listening. Because it's in those seeds, I think it can give us the idea or the guidance around. What are we doing now? Where we guiding? What What do we think we should be doing? Where might some of those fears come from around money? What is enough? What's not enough? What's our risk appetite? All of that kind of comes from? What do we believe to be true? How much do I think I'm worth so and I know you work with a lot of female entrepreneurs, but the amount of times I talked to friends and and colleagues who've got their own businesses and they, they just get paralysed by knowing what to charge, like, isn't there? Like, can't someone just tell me and you're like, no, I now just have a standard reply that's add a zero, like whatever you think, I want you to add a zero and get really kind of confronted by it, because that's probably what you're worth. But if we don't believe that, that the product or the service that we're providing is a value that it's going to positively impact other people. That it's worth valuing, then then we we almost, we do ourselves a disservice but also the work that we and the impact that we can have. So absolutely looking into those beliefs what comes up for you noticing like even for me and I'm sitting here I'm like even noticing that kind of physical response where's that tightness of chest? Where do you get that kind of drop into your guts when you talk around finance? So is it around debt? Is it about asking for money, is about asking for a pay rise? Is it about the decisions of where you spend spend money whatever it is, it has? No there's no kind of it can be a whole range of different things but just notice those responses and and asking that question of what way what's going on here? What do I believe here is a really powerful way to to investigate that.

Amanda: 27:05

There's a lot of people who you know come from, I suppose a very scarcity background, who've now but this abundance mindset, so I know we can change those beliefs. And I even yesterday, I was smacked in the face by it. I was talking to another advisor. And we had similar sized clients with value in a self managed Superfund. And I hold a master's degree I've been doing this for 20 years. This advisor has an invested in education and we talked about what sort of fees are we charging? His fee was three times what I charge, and it was just that slap in the face of me still going. Like you said, add a zero. I'm still not charging what I'm worth. And I was sitting there going aah, I've done it again. So you know, it's always those wake up calls that we sit there and go, it's my headspace. It's gone. We'll i'll only charge that fee and this guy's going well, I'm charging three, four times. And I'm like, Ah, so it's me holding me back. So yeah, I know those limiting beliefs. You know, personally, they impact all of us. So yeah, absolutely. Now, since working with financial professionals, do you do really boring things like run a budget and keep an eye on it? People, I know their eyes glaze over, they're gonna tune out when they hear that word. But what how do you find it valuable? And do you do it?

Ali: 28:18

Yeah, so I'm one of the lazy ones. I'm really bad with a budget. I love the idea of it, but I also feel hamstrung by it. So but where I've arrived at is I guess putting putting funds into different areas rather than relying on my strength of will.

Amanda: 28:44

That might not be there.Those shoes look really good.

Ali: 28:50

Noo!They look really good, right? And life happens and here we are sitting in where you know, half the country's in lockdown. And you can feel like, you know, that whole sense of I feel better if I spend.

Amanda: 29:02

Get it off Iconic or eBay or

Ali: 29:07

That's right that that boutique gin that I'm, who's, you know, distillery I'm

Amanda: 29:12

It's not about me.

Ali: 29:17

Yeah, yeah. So, so no, don't don't run well with a budget but definitely have a stronger focus on just where money is flowing and and yeah, how much we want to be kind of looking at spending spending on different things. Having said that, the last couple of months I Darren and I have been really focusing on on this area, both for the business and just understanding. So for the business, I would say much stronger. I feel like I'm constantly looking at almost on a daily but definitely a weekly basis, revenue, potential revenue and what's coming in next quarter. I do, our bookkeeper does an incredible cash flow forecast that I get every Friday, that allows me to look at what's been spent this week versus what we've actually had come in the door. And that's forecast at least three months in advance with all the expenses so it gives me a chance that within a week if there is a major expense that I wasn't aware of, I can be picking that up straightaway. So it means that you're not waiting till a quarter to the end of financial year to go where does that bleed come from so very much looking at that on a regular basis. And very clear on where those numbers are. And I've started that conversation a bit more now even with our team around money and things coming in the door. From a personal point of view, we've had a to be honest we've had a tough start of our year with just some really sad experiences happening. We had a very close friend, family friend and the fella who was actually our accountant for eight years who I spoke about before he passed away suddenly in a surfing accident and three young girls similar kind of age and stage that we're at. And through that experience as well as I, my father passed away in February this year as well. Through the back of both of those experiences, it has meant that Darren and I have sat down and actually looked at our wealth position and become much tighter on our goals and what we want to do and therefore where money goes each month and each week. So and it's just one of those ones that I think sitting down and planning for the possibility of what can happen when life kind of happens. It has, has allowed us to actually go.. what do we want to get out of life. So whilst we're talking about finances I think it's such a building block to give you the opportunity to then look at the other areas. What are those things that are never going to be on a P&L, that invest in our lives, spending time with family. I

Amanda: 32:20

Money is a tool that e ables much of that to happ

Ali: 32:21

Yeah, absolutely yeah yeah and it can be the thing that n isn't it? gives you the the freedom or the possibility to know that we're okay or that our kids are okay. And our friend, who was an accountant, he was so incredibly well organized in all of this, So his family have been set up and supported and it's been just one of those really tough but an amazing kind of gifts for us to sit down and go let's actually look at our our wealth position we've we've got a great friends of ours that have gifted us this idea of actually pulling together a treasure map. So I feel like I'm pulling together all of these threads that have different aspects that you know, we just pay each year so things like our home and contents insurance, our superannuation, where is that up to. And we found funds in a Superfund from years ago that we had just forgotten about so pulling all of those kind of things together makes me feel much more grounded in our financial position, but also clearer about our financial goals. And so Darren and I have now set up that we're gonna have a monthly catch up around that document and say is this still our financial goals? Is this your where's where's what has there been any major expenses come through, what money can we put aside for an emergency or a rainy day so that we can feel comfortable and and then where can we then invest in those things that don't come into a P&L sheeT. Where, what can we do to invest in our health, in our marriage, in our time with our kids, so setting up those other goals but having the groundwork of that financial structure has already, we're only probably a month into that process but it's already given me a much more solid grounding on on what might be possible.

Amanda: 34:23

It's a great idea treasure map, I love that. It's so aspirational, isn't it? sort of brings all your I suppose your treasures together. Your your investments, whether that is your life insurance, or your income protection or your self managed super fund or your retail, whatever you've got that you know they are the treasures that will provide and I think like you said that gift that your accountant friend when he passed, it doesn't bring them back and it doesn't make it less said. But boy, it's one less thing to worry about. To know that the family is taken care of. That is such a beautiful gift to have left behind for his family. It is a gift for those left behind. You know, for those who say look insurance is rubbish it's just you know money it's you know waste of time. Tell that to any widow or children left behind. You know, it's it's always been the best investment and no one's ever come back to me and said it's too much.

Ali: 35:15

Yeah yeah no exactly exactly and and I think that opportunity to check in with that whether it's monthly or annually to go is that still relevant is that still important Where are our kids at now? Are they financially independent you might not need it so so just knowing that it shifts and changes with life and it's got that flexibility but for right now with our kids that are at age 11 and 13 it's really important.

Amanda: 35:44

And I think like we said where where money becomes a tool to do other things it's not just about having money in the bank or being rich or you know, you watch these different Instagram or social posts and when people follow you and you look at their feed if if every single picture is you doing a pouch or you at the gym or just you you you or your stufft, there's no way I'm going to follow you back. When I look and I see experiences and you living life and the wobbly bits and you know your puppy dog and your pussycats and your kids and you know that this is reality I'm so much more attracted to ,I suppose ,that you know the reality and the experiences of people's lives rather than the vanity side. So it's it's very interesting what resonates with us and and look, there's other people who just love that you know show us your wealth, there's entire luxury feeds and all that but it's it I think it's a great way to look at what what does attract us. Go and have a look through your feed and see what what things you know are popping up all the time that you're surrounding yourself with I suppose.

Ali: 36:46

Yeah, yeah. What are you consuming what he's saying what messages around money or what life he is or what's important but I think he almost comes full circle back to that kind of opportunity that some of those Business Chicks immersion experiences were, just and again, it makes you recognise and the experiences we've had this year is that we only get one life right?you kind get one chance. And so, why not? And and

Amanda: 37:10

Jetskis? again, the gift of our friend who passed away, if I looked at he was, he was someone who woul buy toys. And when I mean by t

Ali: 37:20

Yeah, yeah. But when I look at them, they were always to do ys, they were they were surf oards or with experiences outside. And so even Darren and I looked at that and went, Oh, what if what if there was unlimited budget for experience type investments. And when I say I'd say investments in inverted commas, but but if it's something that motivates you to get outside for us to know

Amanda: 37:51

Spend it paddleboarding with the family

Ali: 37:53

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Go go fishing in the boat with the kids on a Saturday afternoon, to take friends down, kind of kneeboarding in the back of the boat, or whatever it is, then, then what what's yeah, what is that, that importance of investing in those experiences. And I guess the other thing we've reflected on is, what if, what if these are the best years of our life? And that whole, you know, you're waiting for a time and we're doing what we can to have everything. Have things set up and be financially supported. But also, what about those experiences now? And I'm sure you've seen plenty of people hit retirement and then almost fall apart. They don't know what to do. No sense of kind of purpose. So and Darren and I are both kind of anti retirement people. You know, with the the opportunities we have with keynote, speaking and writing books, I'm planning on doing that till I'm 95. Whether people want me to or not.

Amanda: 39:13

Might not be you're favourite financial advisor but you'll still have me around.

Ali: 39:15

Speak life, and what if these are the best years? And what experiences could we could we have now? And what financial platform is required? In order to give us a springboard to do that.

Amanda: 39:24

Which brings me to my next question, do you have a favorite form of investment and it doesn't have to be a financial investment?

Ali: 39:33

Oh, this is um, it's a really good question. I mean, my my favorite is people and relationships, and connections. I think, you know, it is those those experiences it's the conversations with people that light you up or that you hear about opportunities that can tilt into the financially investments. Whether it's businesses that you might be able to support or shares, the stock that you kind of go, actually hadn't heard about that or encouragement around property kind of investment. So as corny as it sounds for a psychologist to say my investment is people.I think probably what comes to mind from a financial point of view again Darren and I were never going to be property investors and yet we are at the moment where you know, I know it's a it is a point in time but obviously properties is in a pretty good position. Yeah yeah yeah so we've we've got a couple of investment properties one, one gets Air B'n'B'ed and one's just a standard permanent investment as well as a commercial investment property. So, I've you know, I've really enjoyed exploring and understanding that investment. I'm excited to find out a bit more about whether it's stocks or potentially investing in other businesses so I can feel like that's almost my next wave from my financial point of view. Whether it's backing and supporting and obviously have a really heart for female led or female founded companies and businesses that I can kind of almost see as my next phase of of life you know, where where I might be able to invest in supporting that.

Amanda: 41:33

Excellent and one final question what would you like to leave your children or teach your children about money, lessons?

Ali: 41:43

How long you got? gain Darren, I were only talking about this this morning and reading an article by Scott Pape everyone knows befoot investor Scott page but it's where I'm probably right now at this position that I want my kids to learn the value of their own financial return so I don't want to ,it's a really tricky one of not wanting to I want to give them a sense of his a platform in life but I don't want to take away the opportunity for them to have to work through some financial hardship themselves. So whether that's recognising how to and it probably goes back to my you know work hard and where where can you invest that money but I want them to to know and understand the value. God I sound so old value off dollar.

Amanda: 42:44

Or you need to go through the adversity...

Ali: 42:50

Totally! You don't get any handouts here. But again, it's a bit of that you know the Hunger Project mentality you don't get handouts you get a hand up and I think that translates to my my kids experience with with money and and finances that that there is value in in every cent and understanding where does it go And what does that mean. We were always hammered with marketing but I think if I look at my my kids generation, I think their battle against the marketing wheel is going to be far greater than anything we ever faced. It is constant, it is present, it is in their face, it is nearly 24/7.

Amanda: 43:41

Anything you look at the next minute there's the ad in your feed.

Ali: 43:43

Yeah. Exactly. So that ability to be really conscious to to make those decisions to have those kind of financial goals and and work towards them. And to recognize that and it's not even against marketing, it's marketing's job is to try and get you to believe that you need this in order to make you happy. Like that's that's what it's there for. And it's very, very effective I've been in the end of it. I continue and will be at the end of it. But it's it's for me. It's that it's that if they can learn to see that to have the self awareness of that and to spend and earn consciously. I think that will set them in really good standing.

Amanda: 44:37

Excellent. Well thank you so much for all those insights Ali. It's been lovely catching up and having a chat. It's always too long between drinks, especially locked down. Also for sharing those you know, beautiful stories about you know, it has been a tough year for you and losing a friend and your father but the lovely lessons that can come out of that as well and the reflection so thank you so much again for joining me

Ali: 44:59

Thanks Amanda.

Outro: 45:02

And that was another episode of Financial Secrets Revealed. Thank you so much for joining me. I hope you got some nuggets of wisdom out of that guest and enjoyed listening to their story. If you'd like to know more, please reach out to me my contact details are in the shownotes or hunt down your favorite bookstore to find financial Secrets Revealed and learn more for yourself. I look forward to hearing from you.