Rhythms of Resilience: West End Drummer David Batchelor on Building a Lasting Legacy

In this episode of Financial Secrets Revealed, Amanda Cassar welcomes David Batchelor, a financial expert with a unique backstory that takes him from the percussion pits of London’s West End to the helm of a successful financial firm. David shares the raw reality of his early entrepreneurial journey—from launching a business with a £9,000 inheritance to working late-night shifts packing Valentine's cards just to provide for his family. This episode dives deep into the resilience and discipline required to build lasting financial independence. 

Are you ready to stop surviving and start building a legacy? This episode is packed with the collective wisdom of a man who has seen both the struggle and the triumph of wealth creation. Tune in to the full conversation to learn how to apply the "Attenborough Scale" to your own portfolio. 

Don’t forget to follow the Financial Secrets Revealed podcast on your favorite platform so you never miss an episode of collective wisdom! 

“Live on 70% of whatever income you earn.  That’s all you get for now.” – David Batchelor.

Apple Podcast Link for Financial Secrets Revealed Episode: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/david-batchelor/id1579602060?i=1000539803830

To connect with David, try Twitter @DSBatchelor, or find him on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-batchelor-6ab48117/

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Transcript

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Intro: 0:06

Hi, I am Amanda Cassar and welcome to the Financial Secrets Revealed Podcast, where I have collected the wisdom from some amazing people around the world to understand better their money story. I have financial advisors, multimillion dollar corporate executives and those surviving on Centrelink. Even running global charities. I hope you enjoy listening to the episodes as I speak with these incredible people about their stories.

Amanda: 0:44

Welcome to the show David Batchelor, it's lovely to have you.

David B: 0:48

Thanks very much, Amanda. It's great to be here. Well, not here. Actually, I'm still sitting in my isolating room in the UK, depends when eople watch this but we're sti l in the throes of the pandemic. And so I'm enjoying bein at home all the time, sort of

Amanda: 1:05

But you're about to be opened up, apparently. So that'll be exciting.

David B: 1:09

Yeah, yeah, that'll be good.

Amanda: 1:11

Now, I think I met you in Florida a few years ago, at an MDRT conference. I think you were speaking there and with mutual friends, all went out to dinner and got chatting, probably over a really good piece of steak or sushi, I can't remember which about our businesses, and found out that like most people, you accidentally became a financial adviser, but started out your career as a drummer. So how did that happen?

David B: 1:38

Yeah, I don't think any of us come into this by design, do we? most of us kind of just happen into this business by accident. And when I left school, I was a professional musician, a percussionist, mostly doing drums by did not stuff. And I did most of my work in the West End, where I'd go in because I, still today, I'm still a perfect sight reader. So I could go into a show, and I'd put down the music and I just played the music stuff machine, it just works. So when someone wants to have a week off of Phantom of the Opera or Starlight Express, I'd go in and, and I do that. And that was my intention, until I decided I wanted to buy a house. What you could probably appreciate is that drummers can't get mortgages, nobody wants to lend money to a drummer. So the way over this was, so I know what I'll do, I'm just going to get a job at a bank. In those days, this was late 80s. If you could walk and chew gum, you could get a job at a bank. Anyone could do that. So I thought I could do that. I do that for perhaps during the day, because the music was virtually all in the evening. There's not much day work unless you did some session work and I wasn't really much of that. So it was all evening, rest life, and do that during the day. And then once I got the mortgage, then perhaps dropped the, and go back to full time drumming. And so I got this job with a bank. And it turned out I was actually by accident quite good at it, which then meant I was approached by another bank and ultimately it became Citibank. From there things rolled on, the music work client went down and financial work client went up until my nan passed away. So back in 1991, my nan passed away, when she left me 9000 pounds. And so almost exactly the same time the company I was working for which is now Citibank had averaged out bonuses because I was running a branch and used to get manager's bonus. And then the new CEO thought it would be really good idea if everyone gets the same bonus, regardless of how profitable you are. So I was in the top three out of 97. So then my bonus was up there, suddenly moved down 30 average of 97. So I was quite fed up with this chap. So in a heat of unprepared action, I told him, I do not want to be around anymore. So I just received this money from my nan. So thats 9000 pounds and I use that to start the business, which in those days was old fashioned selling life insurance. And like we all did in those days selling savings plans and life insurance. And that's how I ended up with my own company. Just because I was fed up with this guy and I had this 9000 pounds in the bank. I don't know what it was like when you started but you think you know everything until you suddenly start to do it and you start to realise you know nothing about running a business.

Amanda: 4:06

I think the older I get the less I realise I know actually, I was so smart when I was 20.

David B: 4:12

You know everything then you know everything then don't you?

Amanda: 4:15

Well, you've got a toddler. I suppose Jack's probably about four now. I'm sure he knows everything, so.

David B: 4:20

At five yeah you think he would do? Yeah, yeah.

Amanda: 4:23

All over the old man. Now one of my favorite questions to ask everybody is what influence your family had on your beliefs about money. You've got a really interesting background coming from sessional work to work in a bank to running your own business. What sort of jobs did your parents have? And did they give you any lessons about money whether spoken or unspoken?

David B: 4:45

Yeah, I think there's a lot that came from that and not by design. I think my dad owned a building company. That sounds very grand like a building company. It was him like four or five guys and that go and put up extensions and that kind of thing. My dad was a great guy. He was sort of the earth guy, he'd be always the first person to put its hands in pockets help somebody. But he wasn't very good with money. And he was made bankrupt twice. And I remember when I was 14 coming home from school, and then on my bike came in up the little drive that we had, and kind of went into the front door, and there was a knock on the door. And it was bailiffs, who'd come to repossess dad's car, which was a.. I just remembered , because it was this, my dad liked cowboy boots, I don't know why he liked, we live in South London. He used to make cowboy boots which is quite unusual.

Amanda: 5:31

Close to Texas.

David B: 5:32

It was close to Texas. And so he had this big Jeep Cherokee, which we didn't have those in UK that times those big gold thing. And they can repossessed it. And I remember that at the time and seeing yeah, what was all this about, and fortunately, the house was in mum's name. So we didn't lose the house, that kind of stuff. But you know, like, everything was lost. And when you see that, it makes you realize that the pain of losing what you've got, and I think that makes you inherently more cautious. And that has affected both the way I think about my business and businesses, and how I think about my own personal money and how I train clients and how I train my family in that actually, you've always got to make sure the downside is protected. Because otherwise you get to count out, which is it and when you sit twice, you know, going through it once was bad enough, but he went through it the second time when I'd left home. So I would have been about 20, 21 when he was made bankrupt for the second time. And I remember how I said to him likr, because he couldn't afford a license, so I said I'll come to the bankruptcy court with you. So I went there. And it was pretty much just to stop my dad effing and blinding the bankruptcy receiver because my dad would have a very short fuse. And it'll only make things worse. So yeah, so I think you know, that kind of family background did really influence my caution when it comes to my own financial planning, advising clients and what we do with business

Amanda: 6:51

And yet your brother became a builder anyway, so all that.

David B: 6:55

My brother became a builder and it was equally as unsuccessful.

Amanda: 7:00

Look, I think that's just the highs and lows of the building trade. And it's exactly the same here in Australia, where its never rains but it pours or there's absolutely nothing. I mean, at the moment, since the pandemic, we've had an absolute rush on houses, and we can't get timber and steel. So, building companies are actually paying people to get out of their contract. There's all the work there, but we can't get supplies.

David B: 7:21

It's funny it's the same around the world, isn't it. I had our team conference last week. And I gave everybody a copy of the old Clason book, you know, The Richest Man In Babylon, which if anybody's watching or listening haven't read it, then read that book. Because if you just do what that book says, and bear in mind that books 70 years old now,

Amanda: 7:40

Yes.

David B: 7:41

You know, my brother and my dad wouldn't have had an issue. So it's that old simple thing, learn to live on 70% of your income and to save the other 30%

Amanda: 7:49

Yeah.

David B: 7:50

Whereas my dad learned to live on 110% of his income,

Amanda: 7:54

You said your mom was a bit more frugal, she was the one who sort of stashed the money to cover taxes and make ends meet. How did it all impact her?

David B: 8:02

Well, you're right, my mum and dad come from a very working class background. And we might remember people talking about having tins and my mum would literally have tins because dad would deal with lots of cash and she would just take the cash and, and stuff it in the tin. So there was enough money to pay for that, pay the mortgage or to pay for this or to pay for that. And I think without her having that bit of common sense behind them, we wouldn't have had anything really. So mum has always been like that. My dad just passed away last year now and so I've become even closer to my mom. And even now she's telling me the stories about well, you know, Dad never knew that I took this money. I just take the money out of his jeans and hide it over here so he didn't spend it.

Amanda: 8:40

Oh cute. So you first learned about money by working at the bank. But you also told me a really cool story about a guy at school that you got a really good lesson from who wanted to do some fundraising. Can you share that?

David B: 8:55

So yes, when I was 14, I was at a school and we had a new teacher come in Mr. Baldwin, he was, called Graham Baldwin, his full name. And Mr. Baldwin had teached at a private school. And he'd watched the television on, television program on the BBC where this, where they'd sent 30 or 40 guys from a state school into private school to see if it would change them which he did and they did really successfully. And the BBC said to the teacher would you come now teach at the state school and we'll see if you can have an impact in this guy said, no I've done all of that, that's crazy. And Mr Baldwin was watching this and he thought, I could do that. And so he literally left the school where he was in Oxford, and came to our school, a state school. And his mindset was totally different to any teacher I've ever come across. An example of this is that we've been forever trying to raise money to put a roof over the swimming pool. There was an old swimming pool in school grounds, which no one used. It was an outdoor thing. And forever they wanted to have a roof over this over the school, sorry I meant swimming pool. And there was never enough money for it. And every year there was this fundraising thing, we had the temperature chart and it was going up and never going up, and my mom went to PTA, Parent Teacher Association meeting where Mr. Baldwin was there for the first time, and they were talking about this. Mr. Baldwin said, he said, well why don't we just borrow the money and build it and everyone said we can't borrow money from, what you doing, we don't do that sort of thing. The he said, well of course you can. Anyway, right about a week later came back, and he said to school, there you go, there's the money, it was 15,000 pounds. And he maxed out one of his credit cards and take out a personal loan. Said there you go, there's the money, you got three years to pay me back. And everyone's like, what? He said, now you've got to do it haven't ya. And of course, the roof went up and it was fantastic. Of course, we paid him back. But what it showed was the importance of taking action, takig responsibility. He took responsibility to solve the thing, rather than everybody else would just kick the can down the road. And I learned a great many things from Mr Baldwin and interestingly, three, maybe four years ago, I was talking about a couple of other stories about Mr. Baldwin to one of my pals over Christmas. And he said to me, my friend, you said, Did you ever tell Mr. Baldwin, about the impact he had on you? And I said that, well I don't think so. He said, well, you probably should. And my wife then went out and she you know, we where there drinking Jack Daniels into the evening. She came back in with an iPad. She said, is this him? She held up the the iPad. I said that's him. She'd found him at a school in Canada, where he was teaching. So I emailed him. Are you the Mr. Baldwin who, he came back and said, I am. Bloody rich, because I can play drums and that was almost like a code sort of thing.

Amanda: 11:31

Yep.

David B: 11:32

And so I arranged to when I was in, where was I, I was at MDRT. For an MDRT, I flew to Boston, where he was speaking at a conference. And I met him in the airport. We had three hours together in the airport, and I filmed him and videoed him. Then answered to his questions, and I'll made that into a video, about a 18 minute video, which I then showed at a client conference. So I showed the interview with him. And we do client conferences at once a year. So we had about four or 500 people in a room. I showed this. And like people were in tears of when they saw this, this kind of thing. And I finished it with it was with, who in your life has changed your life? And who should you contact and thank now. And I've had so many notes and so many emails from clients saying thank you very much for that, I contacted my teacher, I contacted my friend, I contact whoever, just to say thank you. And I just it just goes to show that the range of influence that we can have in our our fantastic business of financial advice. It's not just about the money, it's about those other things which come from it. And without planning really,

Amanda: 12:36

Yeah, beautiful story. And making such an impact to their lives, knowing that they did leave footprints, and that they did leave an impact on other people's lives and hearts. So that's a great story. Actually, if you're happy to share that Vimeo link, I'd be happy to put that in the show notes. So if people want to watch that they can go find the story. That'd be great.

David B: 12:52

Yeah, that'd be great.

Amanda: 12:54

Now, you said things weren't easy when you first started in business? So I love getting into the nitty gritty, you know, life's successful now. You've got a couple of businesses, life's good. You're not just drumming anymore. What sort of financial setbacks Have you had to overcome?

David B: 13:09

Well, you know when nan left me that 9000 pounds I thought. You know, that day I probably earning a 1000 pounds a month. So it was nine months, so it's money. I thought, well this will easily carry me. And the company that I started with to start my own agency, they promised me a load of client leads. And when I got there, they gave me the Yellow Pages and said there you are, they're you leads. Really, is that miss selling or what? Literally it was Yellow Pages, and they said, right, start phoning people making appointments. I remember that first day, I contacted 66 people, made more phone calls and out of 66 made three appointments.

Amanda: 13:42

Wow.

David B: 13:43

So I figured out one in 22 closing rate was okay. until two cancelled.

Amanda: 13:50

One in 66. Yeah, yeah, your odds were getting worse.

David B: 13:52

Yeah, suddenly realised, you know, cold calling is not it. And so really, I had no idea what I was doing, things just got worse. And I spent that 9000 pounds, went negative. And, you know, got to the point where I was out doing appointments all day, I'd come home. So I had two daughters. So I'd do like have tea with them and I'd go out and do the evening appointments, I'd

get home about 10, 10: 14:13

30 and then myself, my wife would sit there and pack Valentine's cards to make extra money to pay for the nappies because we literally had no money at all. And it's, I think going through that kind of pain has added to my caution even more. And as my businesses have gotten stronger, I've realised the importance of having strong reserves within the company and a strong personal reserves so you can protect yourself against that kind of thing. Because it was very painful time as it was in 2008. Now, and I'm not talking about the global crisis, I'm talking about in the UK they changed the law on a bit of tax legislation. So in 2008, they changed the law which meant that people, we were selling a product which reduced inheritance tax by half and we're we've just done a big client seminar and to attract clients. And we've had about 30 people say, yes, they want to come for meetings that kinda stuff. When we we're driving back in the car, and we had the radio on, the chancellor had the budget going, which is the annual thing with the chancellor would change all the tax laws and what have you. And he said, we're going to change this law so that people don't pay this amount of inheritance tax. Instantly, that one product, which was out biggest selling product disappeared overnight. It's almost like, you know, the government saying we're gonna give everybody a brand new car, where you can drive free. And it's like, that's what it was. And I still remember the figures, we had 248,000 pounds fees that people had paid in advance, because we took fees upfront in advance to put these things in place. Because we had about, probably about 50 odd ONO plans in place, which we're going through, and people would pay for this and all of a sudden, they didn't need it. It was given to them for free. So we eventually had to give back 250,000 pounds to clients. Yeah, you're not expecting that. And then course, all the prospects we had suddenly disappeared because our biggest selling product suddenly became banned. It wasn't like any preparation for this, it just happened on that one day. And again, that was another learning experience on it, you gotta have money in the bank. And if you don't money in the bank, then they know whether you're an individual or business and you're in a risky position to be.

Amanda: 16:17

So aside from the book, The Richest Man in Babylon, which you're actually not the first person to mention, what other top tips have you been given or the best financial advice that you've come across, or that people have shared with you?

David B: 16:29

Very interesting. But apart from that technical stuff, which we do when we talk about just good financial principles, pretty much everyone says the same thing, whether it's T.Harv Yeah, of course, it's really important. Yes, you must Eker or you talk about Jim Rohn, The Art Of Exceptional living, have Sky TV, and you must have the latest iPhone, you must have or even The Magic of Thinking Big by David Schwartz, all of a dishwasher. You must have all these things otherwise you ain't them say the same thing, which is pay yourself first. Now, when got a reasonable life. Whereas what Jim Rohn talks about is no you get some money, learn to live on, wether some some say 70% some say 60%, they say learn to live on that part so that you actually, if you're living on 70%, you live on 70%. That means can take the rest, the other 30% and do something important and you can't have a new iPhone, that means you can't have a brand new car, you just have on, that means you need to have interesting with it. And I taught this to my daughters and a slightly smaller house. That s what you should do. Beca se if you do that, in the shor term, the long term, you'll b I teach this to the clients, I say over and over again, is in a much better position. you've got to learn to live on less than you you earn, yeah you've got to learn to live on less than you earn, which is fairly obvious, but of course, most people don't do that. Especially millennials. And I don't want to do to have the whole millennial debate.

Amanda: 17:20

Only about 120% of my income. Now I remember one person telling me they couldn't afford a dining table for years. So they ate of the ironing board. And we actually had an awful dark green plastic outdoor picnic table that we dragged in. So I went through the I couldn't avoid a dining table for a while until a mate of mine who was an upholsterer, got paid in furniture from a motel and took pity on us and gave us a dining table. But it was just that I stopped work. I'd had two small children by the time I was 25. And it was just that really hard lesson to live within your means. And you just have to do what you have to do. So that's obviously the big lesson you've taught your girls, that they're older, like later 20s, early 30s now you girls or?

David B: 18:37

Yeah, I've got two daughters from my first marriage, Emily's 31 and Hope's 29. And interestingly, I was talking to Hope about this, fairly recently she came over. And we're talking about one of her best friends, Ellie. And when they were probably early 20s, late 19, 20s and that they would go in to nightclub and so she'd ask me if I could give them a lift. I had to sell a car so I'd give her a lift to this, this nightclub. And so I took her and Ellie. And they went to this nightclub and they went to the service to get some money out of the service till for the night and hope put her card in, pressed the buttons and it came up saying do you want to have a balance and hope clicked yes. It came up with something like 2500 pounds. And Ellie, standing next to her said. Gosh Hope, you've got so much money in your account, let's take some money out and she's goes, no, no, no, you don't understand. She said that's, I can only take money out of my play account, the rest of it is my financial independence account, I can't touch that. And then she looked at her as if so she was an alien and said what she talking about? financial independence account? But now, you know, Hope's 29. She doesn't have a better paying job than all her friends, they're all about the same. But you see, she's significantly more wealthier than all of her friends. So, the property that she owns, most her friends don't own any properties becasue they didn't have any deposit to put down but she did because she saved. So, I know she's got her, in a spreadsheet to be financially independent by the time she's four 40, which is defined as having a million pounds, you know, that's how she defines it. And she's got this house thats better than everybody else. And I say, yes she works hard and she puts in more than most people. But still, she has her rules. 30% goes for long term savings, goes into financial independence pot. And you know, I have my play pot, which I can blow it on whatever. So in terms of that money she can blow and she's very disciplined with that. And that comes from that simple process of having these pots, which again, is just very simple financial planning, which I think as financial advisors, we can get too wrapped up in the technicalities of tax planning and asset allocation, all that kinda stuff, all of which is important. But when we speak to a client, and when a company name like Wills & Trusts, obviously, we do a lot of estate planning, most of our clients are in their 60s and 70s. But what we always say is that if you're going to pass the money down to your children, who are probably in their 40s, that kind of thing, and two grandchildren that might be in their 20s, how do you know they're gonna use the money properly. So if we're gonna set up this estate plan, what we must be doing the same times, we've got to educate your your children and grandchildren, we've got to teach them how to inherit. And so every year, we run a next generation workshop for the children of our clients. We usually get 100, 120 people there out on a Saturday morning, and we literally spend the morning teaching them how to inherit about what you do when you receive large sums of money. If you've not earned the money, you'll treat it very differently than if you've earned it. And all our clients will die with too much money because they don't spend it and they've spent all their time on it. But it's that old adage isn't it, when people win the lottery than they are poor again in three years. Yeah, well, I have this situation to this guy. So mum and dad had died. And I had a probate meeting. So post death meeting. And it was with the two sisters, I was in the room with the two sisters on my right. The brother was on my left. And the uncle, who was executor, was at the far end of the table. And the lawyer was in doing bits and pieces and he'd gone out to get some paper printed, what have you. And I said to the guy, I said, so what you going to spend your money on. And he was going to inherit something like about 300,000 pounds from this. And this was only just before lockdown, 18 months ago. And so I said, what are you gonna spend your money on? He said, I'm going to buy a car. I said, I right. What are you going to buy? He said, well, I was thinking like a DB7, DB8, something like that. They never go and buy a cheap Fiesta or whatever it is, you know. They always go and buy these cars. And I said, oh right. I said, how much do you think that's going to cost you? Oh, and I'm not gonna buy a new one. So probably about 70,000, something like that. I said, 70,000 pounds? he said yeah. I said, because his dad was a plumber, owned a little plumbing company, not massive, just him and two other fellas. And I said, how long do you think it took your dad to save 70,000 pounds? and he went, I don't know . You've got a very good idea don't you, how much your dad earned? And if he was saving money out of that, how long would that have taken? He went, well I don't know, 3,4,5 years or something like that.And I said , well, yeah, probably about right. Do you really think your dad would have saved after five years? And the two goals went, see told ya, told you told you.So, you know, people don't know how to inherit. And and I think as financial advisor, I think that's part of our job, especially if we set up life insurance, and we do all that kind of stuff. It's not, it's no good just working with a client, we gotta work with the beneficiaries to teach them how to inherit as well. And it's important for us to know first before we can pass it on.

Amanda: 23:24

Absolutely. No it's a great idea the inter-generational planning, especially as the baby boomers age and pass they're talking about, you know, this will be the greatest inter-generational transfer of wealth, like in the history of mankind. So it's, it's a big thing we're talking about here that so

David B: 23:42

Yeah.

Amanda: 23:42

And I'm also really impressed with your daughter that she actually listened to you. Most dad's are gonna listen to this and go my daughter wouldn't do anything I told her to do.

David B: 23:50

Probably one of them did, the other one, not so much. But one of them did.

Amanda: 23:52

It's obviously worked out for her. So you can say I told you so at some stage. So obviously, it's important you talked about the pots or the tins for your mom. Other people use the envelopes or sub accounts, whatever that works. So is it important to you? And do you still run a personal budget?

David B: 24:11

I did. Probably not as much so. I'm fortunate enough to be financially independent now. So it's, it's not so much a big thing. But yes, when money comes in, I still have the pot. So one of the biggest things is I take some proportion that goes into the charity pot. Because already, I, like you, end up getting no end of emails and phone calls saying would you sponsor me for this, would you sponsor me for that, and that kind of stuff. So I'd like to make sure I've got that pot. So when I want to contribute, I can contribute significantly. So in, I still have that pot there. We still operate the play pots. So when money comes in, myself, my wife, we have our own play pots now. When money goes into play pots, that's that money that you can blow and do whatever you want without feeling guilty, that kind of thing. And we started the financial independence pot, which, fortunately is big enough for us to live off now. We're quite fortunate, but there's no reason why we shouldn't still contribute that. So we do, but it's slightly changed. Because once you become financially independent, you have to think about it in a slightly different way. And it is thinking about, well, how are you going to use it? If you don't, you know, if you don't spend it all? And part of that is, who do you help and why ? What is your definition of charitable help? And it doesn't just mean give money to charities, it means who in your family would you help? How would you help and what would be the process of of doing that kind of thing? So yes, I do. But it has just changed slightly once you get to the part where you are financially independent.

Amanda: 25:33

You can buy Jag and Aston Martin now. Well, they are saying that maybe kids these days won't even drive by the time you know, next 10,15 years. So we'll see if that plays out

David B: 25:46

Yeah. I said, I said to my wife, I said, as we're coming or not. to the summer here, I want to go and buy a Jeep, not a good old fashioned Wrangler ,with no roof no doors. And we're gonna take Jack out camping. That's what we're gonna do. And and in our financial services practice, we've built a massive thing based on investing only in only four ways to save the planet rather than destroy it. It's called the Attenborough scale. It's all based around the work of David Attenborough, which I'm sure you would have heard of. In his last book, where he talks about the five ways we need to save the planet, we actually have an investment strategy revolving around those five ways. Because we want people to, if they want to be involved in that investment in such way it saves the planet rather than destroys it. And so in doing that, my wife said, Dave, you cannot go and buy a 4 litre Jeep and drive that around If you're trying to get on touch with people on different ways..

Amanda: 26:40

Walk the talk David.

David B: 26:41

Yeah, you've got to yes, I mean, I have a Tesla, which of course everyone has a Tesla, because it's the type of thing to have, isn't it. But we've made a rule that we're not allowed to buy any other cars unless they're fully electric. Not hybrid, fully electric. So we're desperately waiting for a fully electric four wheel drive or something rather to come out. So I can drive this big thing around and go camping with jack.

Amanda: 27:00

Do you find there's much more interest from your clients now in socially responsible investments, and those that support the sustainable development goals of the world?

David B: 27:13

Yeah, there is. And of course, you know, you see that that come in with the millennials. But what I see very clearly is that people go on the journey, when they have no money, they want to do that. When they get money, they care less about it and care more about the money. That is a real journey that people go on, we did a survey of our clients, not this January, January, beforehand, just before this lockdown. Asking them, would they like to be able to have the option to invest in investments which promoted saving the planet? No, that's the wording used, something like that? And something like 90% came back and said, Yes. And then we said, what conditions and pretty much everyone said, I'll do it, as long as it doesn't cost me anything. So they weren't prepared to give up returns or to pay more money to do it. So of course, it's easy to say yes, it is not gonna cost you anything, isn't it?

Amanda: 27:57

Wow.

David B: 27:57

And so the real question is how much are you prepared to pay, whether by different return, none of us really know where those investments do better or worse, because we don't really have any ballpark on that yet. But certainly, where we built these portfolios are more expensive, because we're buying more esoteric investments, which are tough to get into, perhaps there's less liquidity, so you give up some liquidity for it. So the question is, are people prepared to give up other things such as liquidity? Are they prepared to pay more to invest those kind of investments? And as I say, people start off by saying yes, when they don't have much money, but when they have money they get, they think about it very differently. So we're having to work really hard to try and build this so that people can make, yes, an informed decision. But without paying an arm leg for it. And unfortunately, till it's probably 5,6,7,8 years down the road with this where we can show some performance data, it's really difficult to say whether these things are gonna do better or worse. And that's the first thing they say is, will these investments do better for me, are they'd be worse than. I don't know, because guess what, Tesla wasn't around in 10 years, 10 years ago. So we can't tell you what it would have done. And, you know, the other big one is like, well why don't we invest in Netflix, that's not going to be able to destroy the world. Well, it doesn't necessarily help it either, does it. And so this is why it's so difficult, this socially responsible, this sustainable thing, which is why we kind of erred on using the principles that David Attenborough came about and created this thing called the Attenborough scale. So you can either invest with us and make David Attenborough 100%, happy or very sad, where do you want to be? And if you're going to ask me what return they're going to get? I can't tell you. There is no history on that yet. What's the real reason you're doing it? Are you doing short paid returns are you doing, if you want to be seen to be doing the right thing? The other thing I see is that..

Amanda: 29:39

Feel good factor.

David B: 29:40

Yeah, you see, older people tend to do one of two things either they say not interested. I want my X percent therefore I'm not gonna do that.

Amanda: 29:50

Not my BHP coal one. Yeah, absolutely. One final question for you. You fell

David B: 29:51

Well they, I'll have a little bit, that way I can tell my grandchildren I'm doing some of it and I'm doing my bit. I'm doing my bit so I've got a third in sociall responsible or whatev r terms you want to use, you kn w. And so they're doing it, bec use how they want to appear to omebody else. So it really is uite interesting as we've rea ly got, you know, deeply int it. And we built some sof ware, which does it. And we' into financial planning from drumming. I don't think I've e promoting it to other adv sors in the UK. So others in th UK can use what we built, t's really hard to build. t's interesting to see how cli nts are reacting to it, because everyone says they want it. It' like everyone says they want el ctric car until it's like, y ah, it only goes so far. Yeah, b t once a year, I drive 200 mil s in one go. And I need to be a le to do that. And it's that ki d of thing that you get. seen a bigger, wider career stretch than than that one. What benefits do you think clients get from working with financial professionals? You've been doing this a while you've got a few businesses? Why do people keep coming back to you and what's what's the value? The real value is the confidence that it gives them, it's not about till they get better returns, of course, we like to think that and usually we do, but that's not what it's about. It's about that somebody else is looking out for them, and giving them the confidence that everything is happening at the right time in the right place. Because there's a great fear of this. And I've FOMO - fear of missing out that clients have, whereas if they know there's somebody else behind them thats what helps. And predominantly, certainly in the ranch we work, where it really shows up is when somebody dies. As a financial advisor, yes, you can make him a couple of extra percent, you can reduce their charges, you can save them some tax. But you know, you've got husband and wife and one day he doesn't wake up what you do with the wife, then that shows the value of what we do. I had three weeks ago, I was on holiday, this camping trip we've just had, and...

Amanda: 31:49

Gosh.

David B: 31:49

And, it wasn't in the Jeep. No it wasn't, no. And th

Amanda: 31:49

Not in the Jeep?

David B: 31:52

And first thing I say is firstly, the first thing to rules are that, when I'm on free day, the staff can' contact me, unless there's death. That's the only reaso that's the only reason they'r allowed to contact me on a fre day, like Dan Sullivan' definition of freedom. And I go this thing coming through i that this client, Peter, who I' spoken to two days prior ha died. Where he was walking o understand is don't, do not do anything. Don't try and fix the road and a car was drivin past, hit a horsebox an horsebox hit him and he wa killed outright. And I got thi message and so the first thing did was to phone his daughter Now she'd phone into the offic to say this happened by phone that this was late on a Frida night when we got home anything. Don't try and do anything. Don't do anything. spend the weekend with your mom, just look after your mom, Nancy, who's the widow. And then I'll talk to you first thing on Monday, just you and then we'll bring your mom in then we'll bring your sister in, because Katie was the one who took this clients, took control. And the text I got. I almost cried when I saw the text. Oh thank you so much for being there. I can't believe you contacted me even though you're on holiday. You know, dad always said that you're the first person to call and he really meant it. So then I had that what was the zoom call with with Katie and then a mom came in and then Lizzie her sister came in. And it was all about, don't worry, everything is in hand, don't do not do anything. Sort out the funeral, look after each other. Don't do anything. sort out the funeral and thats it. Or do nothing until you get past the funeral. And just you know, it some things that I say to Nancy, because we have a lot of those calls. It's about knowing how to deal with them. And the best way to deal with is is assume I've always found. And so I said to Nancy, I said, of course what you'll remember is that Peter was one of the biggest pain in the asses of client I've ever had. And of course they all laughed. Because I said I said Katie your dad was,you know. He would never stop. I said, but fortunately, there's one thing that he did, which I stopped him doing, and you might remember this Nancy. And that was last time I saw him for like a year ago before they brought that pandemic. He had this life insurance running, for a million pounds. And he was saying this is costing me 17,000 pounds a year Dave, I shall just stop this and we don't really need it do we?.And I said you know what, Peter? guess what? Don't tempt fate. Keep it going. Right? Because you're getting on a bit now, you're 62 or something like that. I said then it doesn't seem like it's 17,000 dirt cheap for million pounds worth of life insurance. And if you cancel now, all those payments you made have been wasted. Alrite then, Alrite then. And I said do you remember that conversation Nancy? She said, gosh I do. I said, and we just checked ,Peter did make the payments. So and I know you're worried about things but and within a couple of weeks. I'm going to come over and give you a check for a million pounds and you'd never have to worry about money. It's not something you have to worry about. So you can still go to Waitrose so you know. Yes. Go to Waitrose this afternoon. Buy lots of wine and get drunk.

Amanda: 34:53

Celebrate, thanks Peter.

David B: 34:56

You know, and of course that made it, you know, it's one of those things that was funny as well as put their mind at rest, but also that shows the value of what we do, doesn't it?

Amanda: 35:05

Yeah. And that is priceless. You can't put a value on, well, I paid you how many 1000s and fees, or an insurance premium that I thought was ridiculous. The fact that he knew that if something happened, his wife and kids would be sitting there going, David said, we can order a magnum of champagne. That that's

David B: 35:26

Not to celebrate his death...

Amanda: 35:27

Well almost to thank him for

David B: 35:29

Celebrate his life.

Amanda: 35:30

Yeah, celebrate his life, but also the appreciation that he did provide for those he left behind. And that's a gift.

David B: 35:37

Yeah.

Amanda: 35:38

That's a real gift. On that note, thank you so much for joining me today David. I really appreciated your insights as the only drumming financial advisor that I do know. I was a percussionist in high school. I don't know if that counts.

David B: 35:51

I'm sure it counts.

Amanda: 35:53

More on the Xylophone than the maracas I think. Anyway, thank you so much again, it's been a delight to have you on.

David B: 36:00

Lovely, thank you very much Amanda. It was great to be here. Thank you.

Outro: 36:04

And that was another episode of Financial Secrets Revealed. Thank you so much for joining me. I hope you got some nuggets of wisdom out of that guest and enjoyed listening to their story. If you'd like to know more, please reach out to me my contact details are in the show notes, or hunt down your favurite bookstore to find Financial Secrets Revealed and learn more for yourself. I look forward to hearing from you.