Beyond the Crime Scene: Building a $30 Million Legacy of Hope

In this profoundly moving episode of Financial Secrets Revealed, Amanda Cassar sits down with Peter Baines, a former forensic investigator whose career spanned Sydney’s crime scenes and international disaster zones like Bali and Thailand. Peter shares the life-altering moment he met 32 children living in a single tent following the 2004 tsunami—an encounter that compelled him to found the charity Hands Across the Water. 

Despite his professional success, Peter opens up about his own "lowest point," including personal financial ruin and living out of his car, and how he navigated that darkness to raise over $30 million for children in need. 

Are you waiting for the "perfect time" to start your legacy? This episode is a masterclass in resilience, showing how one man turned personal disaster into a global movement of hope. Tune in to the full episode to hear Peter’s incredible journey and be sure to follow the Financial Secrets Revealed podcast to stay connected with more life-changing stories. 

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“Work hard, invest, take advice but, above all of that, make the time and space to enjoy what you’re creating around your wealth.” – Peter Baines.

Catch up with Amanda Cassar, host of Financial Secrets Revealed on Twitter and Instagram @financechicks or on LinkedIn at Amanda Cassar | LinkedIn

Websites:

https://amandacassar.com.au/ https://www.wealthplanningpartners.com.au/ (company website)https://trustedagedcare.com.au/ (company website)

Or you can find Peter Baines and the Hands Group on Twitter at @peter_baines and @HATWAustralia

Transcript

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Intro: 0:06

Hi, I am Amanda Cassar and welcome to the Financial Secrets Revealed podcast where I have collected the wisdom from some amazing people around the world to understand better their money story. I have financial advisors, multimillion dollar corporate executives and those surviving on Centrelink, even running global charities. I hope you enjoy listening to the episodes as I speak with these incredible people about their stories.

Amanda: 0:44

Good morning, it is Amanda Cassar, and I am joined by the lovely Peter Baines today, who has a very extraordinary work history. Welcome, Peter to Financial Secrets Revealed.

Peter: 0:56

Good morning, and thank you for having me. Amanda,

Amanda: 0:58

Can you please tell us a little bit about your history with the police. I believe you've been to everywhere from Bali to Thailand to Leon to Saudi Arabia. So can you give us a little insight as to how you came to be such a globetrotter and what your role was?

Peter: 1:17

Yeah, it sounds pretty sexy. When you frame it like that doesn't it?

Amanda: 1:21

Until you know what you were doing. Yeah.

Peter: 1:22

Yeah yeah. I joined the police, went to uni after school and quickly realized that Uni at that time didn't serve what I was looking for. Bailed out of that, which is funny because I'd go back and spend 13 years studying at university doing different courses in different degrees and so forth. So,but yeah, joined the cops pretty young and worked in uniform in Sydney then progressed through to, ended up in the forensic area. And that was really because I got sick of doing domestics, and dealing with drunks and thought there's got to be something better and found my way into the crime scene unit. And that really became a career within itself. And worked as a forensic practitioner attending scenes of major crime, suspicious deaths and homicides and fires and you know, like your, your real life CSI guy, you know, like, examining scenes, recording the scenes, interpreting the evidence and presenting that at court and, and then that led to the international work that you talked about, I worked in Bali after the bombings, and then Thailand after the tsunami and, and then I seconded to Interpol, and work with Interpol, in Leon in France, writing a classified paper on counterterrorism around chemical, biological, radiological, and nuclear threats and, and then spent time with the UN Office of Drugs and Crime and then resigned from the place in 2009. And realised that I'd been gone for a couple of years on this secondment and the thought of going back to what I used to do, wasn't all that appealing. And so took the leap and resigned.

Amanda: 3:03

And it was really your work in Thailand that I suppose inspired the current life you're living. So can you tell us a little bit about what you did in Thailand and how that's led to where you are now running a charity.

Peter: 3:15

Yeah, so the work in Thailand was I was deployed as one of the Australian leaders, leading the Australian team and an international team and, and we were over there to identify those who died. Now, as a result of the Boxing Day tsunami, there was somewhere between 250 and 300,000 people who would die across the three main countries across Indonesia, in Banda Ache, Thailand and Sri Lanka. And in Thailand, we did what's called disaster victim identification. So we we're there to identify those who died and send them home, whether they were from Australia or around the world or Thai citizens.

Amanda: 3:56

I understand there was quite a few different countries involved in that repatriation of the bodies as well.

Peter: 4:02

Yeah, we had 36 different countries represented in the DVI work in the identification work, and there was 450 forensic staff who came from those countries and it was and remains the world's largest disaster victim identification attempt undertaken. 1000s bigger than 911 and 1000s bigger than anything that's been done on that identification work and, it was while I was there, met a group of kids who'd all lost their families and thought, you know, perhaps I could do something for them. And I realised I couldn't change what had happened but we could change what happened next.

Amanda: 4:41

So you did say that I think there were over 30 children living under a tarp in an area where you were serving at the time.

Peter: 4:48

Yeah, that's right. And I met a group of kids, 32 kids sitting in a tent, and that was in the grounds of one of the temples just near where we were doing all the forensic work and all of those kids that lost their families, their parents, extended families and their homes and there was a lady that came down from Bangkok, a Thai lady who took I guess, care of the kids and and then with another forensic practitioner who was working with from the UK, the two of us had decided that we'll do something to raise money and hopefully be able to create a home for these kids. And that was the first project when we opened that home in 2006.

Amanda: 5:29

And the rest is history, as they say.

Peter: 5:31

Yeah that's it

Amanda: 5:32

How many homes across Thailand are there now.

Peter: 5:34

Yeah, seven homes across Thailand. And you know, the kids that come directly from the tsunami is obviously very few now because of the time that's passed and the age of those kids. But it doesn't seem as though the demand for support changes. But you know, that we've got 350 kids across those seven properties. We've got, you know, an ongoing University scholarship program that we fund kids through Uni, we've got internships that we arranged for the kids and, you know, we really measure ourselves not on the numbers of kids, not on the number of homes or because any charity, Amanda, you know, you should be working to shut yourself down.

Amanda: 6:15

Yeah, absolutely.

Peter: 6:16

The ultimate, the ultimate success is ceasing to exist because the needs not there.

Amanda: 6:21

I know you're working with children, like, I th nk recently, I saw there wa a practically a brand new b by under a month old delivered to one of the homes right thro gh to you know, you've got the 18, 19, 20 year old kids ow in University that you'v seen through the life of the pr ject. So and, you know, you're lso I think the children in no thern Thailand, there's some escue situations you've had to o. So yeah, unfortunately, th need isn't going away anytime soon by the l

Peter: 6:47

No like Thailand is a, you know, it's a developing country. And to be honest, you could do exactly the same in Australia, like Australia has a massive problem with, it might not be directly related but there's certainly huge problems here in Australia, with kids in family situations where they're

Amanda: 7:18

Yeah, we don't even have the orphanage system here at risk. And thankfully, we've got the government support to anymore, do we? So it's still very, very different over there.

Peter: 7:24

Which is good. You kno, which is good. Like, all t look after those kids. But in Thailand, that doesn't exist. So ings being equal, the best pla e for kids is i we provide that long term care where it's required for those

Amanda: 7:29

Absolutely.

Peter: 7:30

You know, no good, no good. No good just taking the kids. kids out of our homes and putting them in the homes in the community and thinking it's a better situation. Because unless you've got then the support and services to ensure that the kids are then looked after that they're fed that they're not being mistreated, they're not being abused, they're going to school, and it's a very simplistic view to think just close them down and put them into the community because it's actually where the some of the kids that we have come from is where they're taken out of the community, by government, by police, by the hospitals and, and given to us because they come there in situations of risk and abuse.

Amanda: 8:06

It's pretty sad. I had a security guard recently, I approached at a community centre and I said, you know, why do you need a security guard at a community centre? he was like a you live in under a rock? And I went well, yeah, I really do. And he was telling me, you know, as a place of handover for children and domestic violence, children have tried to hurt themselves, and you know, self harm cases at these community centres, the homeless are often there, there's drug addiction, there's Ice addiction. To me, it was like I thought you went to a community center for an engagement party or a training workshop, I'm just so naive, and gratefully so. But it was, when I first I suppose, joined in, I heard you speak at a conference back in 2008. But I was very fortunate, I think, in 2016, to win a ticket to the slums. with you at one of your conferences, I was very privileged to be at one of your future of leadership forums, and got a ticket. It was such a beautiful eye opening experience to be able to help out with that to see where the dollars go to those in need. And I think you're one of the very few charities, I do know where 100% of the funds go to where it's needed without an administration cost. So that's a pretty amazing, probably not a brilliant business structure.

Peter: 9:16

I think the, you know, the charity sector shouldn't be, in my opinion, shouldn't be measured on what it spends in admin or fundraising, it should be measured on the transparency. The model that we've got, that just works for us. And the reason that we're able to do it is because we created a social enterprise in 2011. A company thats sole purpose is to generate income, that underwrites the operating costs of the charity. So it's, it's something that, you know, served us well, but as I say, I don't think it's necessarily the best thing to view charities on. It's more around the transparency.

Amanda: 9:54

Yeah. And the impact of the works. Yeah, the good it's doing just fabulous. Now, I understand that you're poor Probably a lot more savvy speaking around leadership forums and charitable and doing good and that sort of thing. So it might be unusual to have you on a financial podcast. But one of the things I really loved is that you come from this very middle class, Australian background, you've traveled the world, you know, live this, I suppose jetsetter live outside looking in, you've worked in the slums. So you've seen reality all around the world. And one of the things I loved asking people when I wrote the book was, what did your parents teach you about money? So can you give us a little bit about your growing up in Australia, your family situation, and answer that question, what did your parents teach you about money when you're growing up.

Peter: 10:39

Yeah, I guess it was, you know, you said, we're middle class, I think we're probably working class, to be honest, you know, and my parents had separated when I was young, and it was a real struggle, you know, like, financially, there were times where it was very touch and go around the house and and what mum could provide for us. Yeah both working class parents who came from similar families, and not high levels of education either, within the parents. And, you know, and I think what I learned was from them both was, the hard work was where, you know, money came from. And for them, it was never around investments or the stock exchange or you know, superannuation policies or property investments or anything like that. It was, you work hard, and you'll be paid. And that's how you live, you know, so I think when I think about financial literacy, what I took from my parents, was that, from them was that hard work would reward you.

Amanda: 11:43

Yeah. And sometimes it's those unspoken lessons, isn't it that we take away rather than direct sit down, have a chat about money. But you did buy a block of land pretty early for someone who hadn't had that financial goal in life that this is what you do you go and buy a house. So how did that come about that you got into the property market so early.

Peter: 12:01

Yeah, that's, you know, I think about it now. And I go, that was quite bizarre, like I was 18 and my girlfriend and I both got personal loans, and we bought a block of land at Kawana waters at Maroochydore. And, you know, we paid less than 20 grand for it,

Amanda: 12:18

I think it'd be worth a little more now.

Peter: 12:21

I mean, who doesn't say that about properties. They fold at some point, but I think what it did was certainly gave us that, the routine or the need to save and pay a mortgage and be diligent about that. And then next thing, you know, you're demonstrated to banks that you can be a responsible borrower and pay your mortgages and then when it came time to make the next property purchase, we had some capital behind us in the equity within the land. And from then it was something for me that that was where working in the police, was never the case that we had all of this excess income that we that many of your clients might have had. But you know, it was a case that we we're able to keep accumulating property by using the equity that we had and, and ended up with several investment properties in Tamworth and and yeah, I think that's as Australia feels comfortable or Australians too comfortable investing in property, don't they?

Amanda: 13:22

Absolutely. For bricks and mortar, I've got one at the moment who's buying his first investment. Its a display home and he's out there every weekend just standing here. He's really excited to see it, feel it, touch it. He's there. It's exciting. I Remember you said, you know, for people where they have a set salary, there's not a lot of overtime, it means you need that discipline to be able to do, you have to live within your means, you're forced to do that, which is a hard lesson for some people when credit comes so easily these days. So it's a big lesson that you obviously took away quite early to start that little property portfolio.

Peter: 13:55

Yeah.

Amanda: 13:55

Sounds like everything just went along beautifully. But I'm guessing life isn't like that. And you probably did have some financial setbacks. So did you have any low points in your financial story, after getting this lovely little property portfolio

Peter: 14:07

Are more just as you say, life takes twists and turns. And, you know, I separated from my wife in between tours of Thailand. You know, at the time, we were living in Sydney, we had three kids in private school, and my wife wasn't working and we had a mortgage to pay in Sydney. And you know, there's not a lot of money left out of public servants income when you got those commitments and separating. It was certainly, it was at a time where I decided to start the charity and at that point in my life, I couldn't have been at a lower point on all measures, physically, mentally, emotionally, financially, like as close to broken as I've ever been. And there was a time where I lived in some pretty, pretty shitty accommodation because I just had no money and you know, travel ground with my possessions in the boot of the police car. Unmarked police car I was issued with and no one knew. And just how touching go things were financially. But you know, thankfully that all turned itself around and certainly enjoy a very different life these days.

Amanda: 15:13

So here you are at the lowest point ever, committing to raise money for children in Thailand to have a home and you're living in boarding houses and a car yourself. It's a crazy, crazy moment with, I suppose, looking back to witness that.

Peter: 15:27

Yeah, and you know, it wasn't something that certainly wasn't by design. And it was the case that, you know, I meet a lot of people as you said, I speak at a lot of conferences and people who say, I'd love to do what you've done in relation to the work around Hands and so forth. But then they followed up with, but, you know, the time is not right, or when the kids are through school, or when the kids have finished university or when I've paid off the house, and you wait for the right time to come. And there's a good chance that will never come. And I think just the commitment for the kids in Thailand that I made, I had no idea how I was going to raise money to build this home. It was was touch and go out how I was feeding myself, let alone thinking that. And I didn't have a big network of friends that we could do traditional fundraising, I certainly, the whole corporate world was completely foreign to me, I had no connections into there. As I said, there was no family money to rely on and but committing to do something for someone else benefited me in a way that I never could have imagined.

Amanda: 16:35

So I believe someone handed you a card at one stage and said, why don't you tell your story, and you thought it was a dumb idea and threw the card away. But obviously, it stayed on played on your mind.

Peter: 16:45

You're in between tours of Thailand, I was introduced by a mutual friend to a guy called Matt Church, who's a bit of a legend within the speaking industry in Australia, and the three of us had lunch, and Matt handed me his card. And he talked about the speaking industry, the money that you're paid to travel, the opportunities and so forth. And knowing what I was doing, he said to me, I think there could be something in this for you. And I quite literally walked away from lunch and dropped his car in the first bin that I passed because this is rubbish, you know, like I'm in the cops. What could I possibly have to offer people in the financial services sector? For example, what possible value could I have and dismissed the idea out of hand. And that was only when I went back to Thailand, on my next rotation, saw the kids and thought, I made that commitment well how am I going to raise money and if already half of what Matt has said about his speaking industry. If half of that is true, then that's how I'd raise the money. And I got back in contact with him and said what you're talking about, was that true? And he said, Absolutely. He said, If he said there's no doubt you have a story, he said, if you can tell a story, well, then you'll be right. And that was what I did, I started telling the story I got paid for that. And the funds that I was paid went towards building the first home. And the more I spoke, the more I was invited to speak and the more money I got. And then I had some incredible donations that came from speaking at conferences where I've never asked for them. But you know, I've had several, and I was only talking about this the other day, probably half a dozen occasions where I've been given a check of$250,000 or more on the back of the speaking presentation. And, you know, it's somewhere between 45 minutes and an hour you invited to share your story. And then, you know, to have you know, incredibly generous individuals or organizations. And when I think about them, Ray O'Rourke from Laing O'Rourke, gave me a check for quarter of a million dollars. Brett Godfrey, the former CEO of Virgin who was invited to see me speak, invited me to his home, did exactly the same.

Amanda: 18:57

WOW

Peter: 18:58

The NARTA, National Association of Retail Traders of Australia have been supporting me. They were the first to give me 250,000 after I spoke for them in San Francisco, and and it's continued, you know, and it's just been this amazingly blessed life I've been able to live. And it was all because I decided to do something for someone else. It's very much the case that I believe, in the work I do with organisations now around helping them build Corporate Social Responsibility programs that are a profit centre back to the business. A lot of organisations and family foundations and individuals will support their favorite charity and think that they've got corporate social responsibility as a business. You'll talk to them , they'll say, yeah, we've got a CSR program and I'll say what is it and they so we give this to this organisation, but you know, really a matter that's just philanthropy. And there's nothing wrong with philanthropy, it's a good thing, but it's not gonna help you business growth. And the work I've been doing with organisations is if as an individual, or family in a business large or small, if you're involved with your favorite organisation, and it's not a profit centre to you, then you're leaving money on the table. And for businesses, it's around customer attraction, staff retention, brand differentiation, new markets, you do CSR right and it'll make you as an individual or your business more profitable. And people in Australia, we've grown up with this culture saying that, but that's not why we do it. But here's the crazy thing. If as a business, you grow through your association with a charity, and your profits grows well then there's more to give away, you know, and right now is a real example of why that needs to be the case. During difficult times and in COVID, I think we've seen two things, either business, you know, flourish, or business really struggle. There's not many people that haven't been affected in some way, because of what we've gone through. Now, if your corporate social responsibility is a cost centre to the business, so you're giving away more than you're getting, well, then in difficult times, you'll start to wind back your commitment, you'll tighten the purse strings, and you'll say, well, we can't really commit what we're used to right now, we'll pick that up in some future time when the economy is better. But this is when the charity sectors, when people lean in, and rely on their resources more so in difficult times. So if we've got corporate or business or individuals saying I can't support charity now, because of difficult times, that's when people are relying on the more. So if we can create these relationships, so they're profit centres to your business,to you as an individual, you're more likely to stay and be more involved, which allows the charity or the organisation you love and support to do more of the great work. So it's, you know, it's this whole journey of, that I've been through of learning that, you know, at Hands as you know, we're not about soliciting donations, we're about providing value back to individuals and organisations who then support us more so it's just, it's this almost reverse relationship where we start from,

Amanda: 22:11

I think you've even written a book about this, haven't you? You're doing good by doing good, which then you've gone into author space, as well as public speaker from from cop land.

Peter: 22:20

Yeah, well, that was, you know, I wrote my first book, and it was more just the stories and then I started all this consulting work. And then I had Wiley, who is Australia's biggest business book publisher, approach me and offered me a book deal and around this CSR stuff, and I said no. It was like, six months going backwards and forwards with me saying, no, I don't want to write another book and them saying that I think you should and then we finally agreed. And it you know, it really, I guess it's a clear view was what I was doing, and speaking about, and doing was, had a unique, I guess, aspect and beauty to it, certainly within the Australian publishing market.

Amanda: 22:58

Yep. So I will put that in the show notes. So people can look that one up as well.

Peter: 23:02

Sure.

Amanda: 23:02

So the best financial advice you were ever given, now you originally thought that was basically get a good solid job, earn a good income, the police force job offered great health care and benefits. I suppose, those schemes back then were just outrageously good to public servants. So what changed over time that, I suppose, no longer

Peter: 23:19

Yeah the advice you'd give your own children. So what's different for you, what's the good advice you'd give now, I think the best advice that I would give is surround yourself with good people who, have a, you know, a financial advisor who's invested in you, and don't be afraid to leave when they stop serving you. And, you know, if you taken for granted, if you're not big enough for them, well find someone that is invested in you and listens to you, is part of the journey that you want to embark on. And I think in the service of professional services, that can be the case that whether it's around accounting, or financial advice, or legal or whatever, that you go to that person for them to help you with your needs. And I think there can be a drift and, and transition where you just then become serving their needs, where you're just paying their invoices, and they've taken you a bit for granted. So I think it's, you know, when I talk to my kids, it's about finding people that are invested in them people that they feel comfortable and trust their advice, but also understanding that you don't have to hold all of this knowledge yourself, and to rely on those that have made it their profession to understand those areas you don't.

Amanda: 24:41

I'm a big fan of outsourcing myself, whether it's getting the ironing or the cleaning done right through to getting professionals who are invested in learning and knowing so it's a great idea. Now you've also had a health scare along the way. I understand, how does that impact things? A lot of people you know, say it gives you a new perspective,did it for you?

Peter: 24:58

It's an interesting question. The health scare was just found a spot on my leg and they'd been there for a while. I'd actually had it checked by who I thought was a cancer specialist or you know, so forth. And he said to me, now you're fine. Don't worry about it. And then my partner I was living with a time, she just kept hounding me saying you need to get it checked again and went and got a checked. And then the doctor the second time said, the only way really for us to know is take a biopsy, and he took a biopsy and contacted me and said, we need to remove it, it's not great. And we'll take a larger portion of it out and took the larger portion. And I was actually, I was then speaking at a conference in Perth, and he rang me and said, where are you? And I said, I'm in Perth.

Amanda: 25:45

Never the phone call to receive.

Peter: 25:47

Yeah, he said, well, you need to be admitted to hospital. And I said, well, I'm in Perth. He said, you're not listening, you need to be admitted to hospital. And I said, Well, with respect, I said, you're not listening. I said, I'm in Perth. And it was a funny thing. You know, like, I was speaking for one of the big councils over there. And they had me speak for two days. And it was a mirror of the second day. So they took half of their workforce one day, half the second. And so I got this phone call that afternoon. And then, you know, had to stand up on stage the next day and you know, motivate this group of council employees, knowing that I've received this notice and, you know, I flew home and, and went back to the specialist, and it's a real lesson in communication. I walked in, and he said, grab the phone, he said, Who are you again, he goes, the overnight goes, Oh, that's right. You're the one with the aggressive tumor. And I went, OK, since when did we call it that. And then I was referred on to a cancer specialist, oncologist at Royal Prince Alfred hospital and to the melanoma unit, and went in for the first consult. And they started by talking about survival rates. And I went, holy shit, when did this all happen? You know, and got through all that fine. And, you know, I don't know if that might be the right thing to say, or the expected thing to say that I turned around and viewed life differently. The flowers look brighter, the, you know, the smells were stronger. I loved my kids more I fought this. And I don't know, like, it's, you know, something can that I've been exposed to a lot of stuff, and things on a level that obviously changes you incrementally, as a person. And, you know, having had the career that I've had, and the work I've done along the way, you can't do that not be changed. And I think all of these experiences, good, bad and indifferent just make you the person that they are. And so it's not like there was, you know, an even starting Hands wasn't an epiphany. You know, it wasn't as though I've gone, the light had shone upon me and I go aaarh, I gotta do something, you know, it was a case I'd met the kids and went, Okay, well, this, you know, makes sense to start and maked sense to continue. So, you know, maybe I'm just a simple bloke who hasn't reflected enough on the lessons of why, but I'm where I am having travelled through that journey of life.

Amanda: 28:07

Yeah, absolutely. And there's been, like you said, so many experiences. So you did eventually get yourself a financial advisor, I think he'd heard you speak at a conference. So you have surrounded yourself by a rep, you know, now that you've got the charities and trusts and that you've, you know, got accounting services, financial advice yourself. Do you have a top personal financial tip that you would like to share Or that you would like to pass on to your children.

Peter: 28:34

Yeah, I guess, it's, you know, one of those things that, for me, it's what's worked for me, and whether it's financial, or whatever, it might be that you know, that the goals or things that we aspire to, sometimes can seem big, and a long way away. And, you know, and whether it's starting a University degree, or saving for a house, or whatever it is, sometimes that the scale of what we were proposing, or our ambitions or desires can be so big that we might not start but the best time to start is, is now you know, and the more we do, the clearer we become, and looking at Hands now, it's an organization that's raised, you know, over $30 million, we've got a growing alumni of kids that we funded through university, who have degrees and living and traveling throughout the world working and, you know, we stopped these kids dying from HIV and, and you'll look at it and say, you know, where we operate in three different countries. Where the largest contributing Australian charity to Thailand, and you say there's some significant stuff that you can line up here as a way of measure. But it just started with making a commitment. You know, if I'd started and thought, well, this is what we're going to achieve here. Well, how am I even going to do that, that's too big and not achievable. So whether it's related to finance, you know, people say this is what I want to do or think of starting. And you'll be waiting till you've got all of the answers to all the possible questions, well you won't start.

Amanda: 30:08

Very, very true. And like you said, you know, if you'd sat there that day and went, right, I want to raise $30 million for charity in Thailand. Whereas you know what, we just want to get these kids in a tent with a roof over their head, it those bite sized pieces, isn't it? Yeah. And sometimes, like you say, you don't know where it ends up.

Peter: 30:23

That's right. Yeah

Amanda: 30:24

It can be a big, beautiful thing. So I did ask you what you'd like to leave, your children to learn about money. And for you it was it's always been about property right from when you were young, and you had a chat with them and your own personal journeys, very much property focused, it's been kind to you. Do you still believe that's the best for you personally, that's what you've loved, known and loved and still go that way?

Peter: 30:48

Yeah, look, it's it's, as I've grown, I've got, you know, recently changed financial advisors at the course of that point, that, you know, the bloke that took me into his firm to start with, he's retired and moved out of the firm, and I was just picked up by someone else within the firm and just never heard from them. I never had any contact with them and I went, oh, how could you possibly have any idea of where my personal circumstances are, what my ambitions are, what goals we're working towards, if I don't hear from you. So I left them and went to somewhere else. And, you know, I've actually got my briefing call with him this afternoon. But yeah, he's very much around diversifying investments. But I guess the difference for me was, it was never, I never had money to invest, that was borrowing against the equity from that very first block of land. And all of that property investments that I had, for so long, were positively geared as investments, because I didn't have the income to support them. So to think well put your money into, into shares or, or bonds or whatever it might be. And I didn't have money to do that, you know. So it was what's kind of served me and, and it was easy to understand, it was, I could see the investment there, I could see the capital growth, I could see the rental income. And that was good for me, it's interesting. I've got three kids, and two of them last year bought houses, one of them is 23, and just bought his first house and my oldest son who's 28, has done the same. And my daughter in the middle, she's gone, I don't want to do that. And she's got other things that, so I think it's for them, I'm happy to share what's worked for me. But, you know, they need to make their own journey, according to where they feel is the right thing.

Amanda: 32:42

I know you've got a lovely new bride in the beautiful Claire who also works alongside the Hands Across The Water charity, with her soulful experiences that I'm very proud to have taken part in. Do you guys have a personal family budget? If we go right back to basics, you know, this is 101 in financial literacy. Do you have a personal one and do you also have one,I suppose, for your consulting agency and for Hands? How do you manage money, I suppose, a daily level.

Peter: 33:08

Yeah, so on all of those levels, certainly for us, in a family that we've got. We look at our goals for the year financially and up until COVID, you know, the thing that we, you know, we travel so much with work, and but we always, always loved the opportunity to escape and travel personally. A big thing for us is snowboarding and, you know, whether it's just a couple of trips to New Zealand, or across the Japan next year or so forth. So that was always part of our budgeting is looking at what our commitments were for the year, what we wanted to achieve, and, and not down on a micro level. And I think because of my income, the way that I've been paid through the speaking industry, is it's almost boom or bust, you know, you can have

Amanda: 33:55

Especially in the middle of a pandemic,

Peter: 33:56

Oh absolutely, you know, you can have weeks where, you know, I could earn more in a month, in a good month than I would in a year in the police, but then you can go for, like, certainly COVID time there was there was no income coming in. And so that that whole, you know, it's very different than saying, well, we'll both be paid this fixed amount, and that's what we've got. It's mine, it's just, you know, as a status all over the place. But with Hands, obviously, we've got up until last year, our income where we needed to raise about $2.5 million a year. We worked with each of the homes to have, they have their own forecast, their budget that they do year on year, per calendar year and we do a budget variance meeting with them to look at where the changes are, are they up or down and understand why and then then we allocate money to the homes on a monthly basis. And then anything outside of that agreed on budget that we have a, we call it a special requests where they can say to us okay, this is what's going on outside of budget and this is what we'd like to be funded. And then depending upon the scale or size of that just have your approval process. You know, operating the entity that we have with, you know, in Thailand and then here in Australia, you can't operate business without a good financial awareness and acumen of what's coming in and, and what's going out.

Amanda: 35:22

It's a shame that it's still not taught right back in primary school. That money in money out and look, hopefully that, you know, will change over time where financial literacy will be just 101 for for all the kids. So, well, thank you so much for sharing your own personal journey and finances, leadership, the whole kit. It's been really interesting, Peter, and one of the things I love that you say is, if we do nothing, nothing will ever change. And that applies across everything, doesn't it? So

Peter: 35:49

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah thanks for your time.

Amanda: 35:51

Thank you again for your time Peter. I appreciated the chat.

Peter: 35:53

My pleasure. Thanks, Amanda.

Outro: 35:56

And that was another episode of Financial Secrets Revealed. Thank you so much for joining me. I hope you got some nuggets of wisdom out of that guest and enjoyed listening to this story. If you'd like to know more, please reach out to me my contact details are in the shownotes or hunt down your favorite bookstore to find financial Secrets Revealed and learn more for yourself. I look forward to hearing from you.