David Braithwaite

 Welcome to the Financial Secrets Revealed podcast episode where Amanda Cassar introduces David Braithwaite, a financial adviser based in Kent in the UK.

David is an award-winning adviser who runs Citrus Financial.  He is often to be found on the public speaking circuit and spruiking money tips for BBC Radio Kent.  In his spare time, he also works as an Associate Coach for the international group Strategic Coach® and is proud Top of the Table member of the Premier Association of Financial Professionals, the Million Dollar Round Table.®

Amanda asks David what lessons he learned as a child from his family and how he wound up as a financial adviser, discussing money often with those who work in the media spotlight.  He openly discusses his own personal financial setbacks and what lessons he would like to pass on to his young son.

“You control your money; it shouldn’t control you.  Understand it and don’t be frightened of money.” – David Braithwaite.

Links
HOME - Citrus Financial (Company Website)

Home - David Braithwaite (Speaking Website)

David Braithwaite | LinkedIn (LinkedIn profile)

Premier Business Coach For Entrepreneurs | Strategic Coach (Strategic Coach Corporate Website)

Home (mdrt.org) (MDRT Official Website)

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Financial Secrets Revealed: Cassar, Amanda: Amazon.com.au: Books

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Financial Secrets Revealed, Collective Wisdom from Business Gurus, Financial Geniuses and Everyday Heroes by Amanda Cassar | 9781925648546 | Booktopia

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Catch up with Amanda Cassar, host of Financial Secrets Revealed on Twitter and Instagram @financechicks or on LinkedIn at Amanda Cassar | LinkedIn

Websites: 

• https://amandacassar.com.au/ 
• https://www.wealthplanningpartners.com.au/ (company website)
• https://trustedagedcare.com.au/ (company website)

Or you can find David Braithwaite on Twitter at @CitrusDavid

Transcript

Intro: 0:05

Hi, I am Amanda Cassar and welcome to the financial Secrets Revealed podcast where I have collected the wisdom from some amazing people around the world to understand better their money story. I have financial advisors, multimillion dollar corporate executives and those surviving on centrelink speak with these incredible people about their stories.

Amanda: 0:44

Hi, it is Amanda Cassar from Wealth Planhning Partners and I am joined by David all the way from Citrus Financial, Hildenborough, Kent, UK. How are you David?

David: 0:56

I'm very well thank you very much, slightly different timezone to you. But it's all good.

Amanda: 1:00

Are you awake, I know It's bright and early for you.

David: 1:03

Very much, bright eyed, bushy tailed,

Amanda: 1:05

And I'll be heading off to dinner after this.So breakfast and dinner the other end of the day. Now we originally met on Twitter, I believe you are touring Australia speaking for the Association Of Financial Advisors in Cairns, and I was unable to attend but followed avidly on Twitter where we met and then think we met first in Vancouver, Canada, at another conference. It rings a bell. So yeah, we've connected a few times over the years then where you've been speaking, or we've been attendees at a conference and both being financial advisors around the globe have shared some ideas and thoughts. And thank you for collaborating. When I got to write my fabulous book Financial Secrets Revealed,

David: 1:47

That was brilliant. It was great.

Amanda: 1:48

I think you were the first person I actually called to be a guest in my book. So thank you.

David: 1:53

I was the first one that answered!

Amanda: 1:57

No, you're definitely the first person I asked. I love the quote that you've got on the front of yours, you control your money, it shouldn't control you. Understand it and don't be frightened of money. Do you think a lot of people are frightened of money,

David: 2:09

Money controls everybody, whether you want it to or not, it doesn't matter how much of relevance or importance you do or don't apply to it, it does kind of make the world go round, it can cause a lot of emotional stress, anxiety, it can give an awful lot of joy. So it's just very important with people with when I'm talking to our clients is to make sure that they're in control of it. In other words, have a handle on it, have a budget, know what your expenses are, where you're going to head, etc. Whereas a lot of people don't they tend to stumble from one day to the next to the month to the year. And then look back and think how did I get here. So it's very important, it's not easy to do. And I think money also it can create a lot of fear with people as well, we haven't got enough of it, or you worry about it, it does create a situation where we've probably all seen people that maybe don't open the post where it contains a credit card bill or a bank statement or whatever. People don't like opening it because it's the truth, whereas we should be facing up to it. So control the money, otherwise it will control you. It's very good mantra.

Amanda: 3:06

It is indeed. Now one of the things I wanted to learn from people when I was putting the book together was if how we grew up and our parents beliefs around money impacted us as we grew up. And, I think one of the outstanding things I learned from interviewing everybody and saying what did your parents teach you about money? It was a big, fat, uh..nothing. So having said that, there were also a lot of unspoken lessons that obviously you're picking things up over the years, even if money isn't spoken about. Now, you said your upbringing was super average very middle class Mum and Dad, I think you said dad was the worker mum was a homemaker, which was obviously you know how it was very popular. Back in the day when we were little people. Can you tell us a little bit about your upbringing and your family? And how will that worked? Yeah, sure. So yeah, so very middle class, nothing particularly ordinary or special parents. My dad was a teacher, and actually my mum latterly in afters later in life went into teaching herself as well. And we didn't live anywhere, particularly posh or fancy. We had a great life, there was myself, my sister, and mum and dad. And we all just got on and had some fun, and we did all the normal stuff that families do. But when it came to sort of money, there was never a huge conversation about it. But I always had this sort of inner drive to want to do something a bit different. And there was this incident once where incident sounds very serious like a crime. There was this time and I can't remember how old I was. But as when you're a child, you always want a new bicycle. And what you can't a bike Yeah, Sounds like a Sherlock Holmes mystery?

David: 4:47

It is. And what you can't tell from this video is if I stood up, you'd see how tall I was. I'm six foot four. So consequently, as a young lad, I was very tall as well. So I outgrew things very, very rapidly. And one of those things was a bike. So there was one day when I wanted to go and get a new bike and it might, right, okay, and they're going to take me down. And there was a local sort of market, we used to have just down the road here, and they had a bike store. So they took me down there, I'm really excited to get a new bike, this is gonna be the most exciting thing and I had in my head, I want a racing bike, you know, the ones that drop handlebars, the 10 speed, so I can go fast, and all the friends and people I knew used to hang around with one of these bikes. And then I got there. So this is the bike we were going to buy for you, looked round and was like, You can't be serious. And....

Amanda: 5:32

You would have been the daggiest as kid in the 70s, I'm guessing

David: 5:36

It was a folding bike with three speeds and it had a white basket on the front.

Amanda: 5:43

Oh, nice.

David: 5:44

So that was the only thing missing from it. But it wasn't really my ideal bike. And remember, this is the first time ever I'd actually knowingly stood up in front of my mum or dad. And they said, well, it's this bike or is nothing. And I said, you know what I remember there was a big sort of fall out at the store where we're at. And I said I'd rather have nothing. So I walked away without a new bike, because I could not get on that and ride that around. It just couldn't. Street cred. Practicality. It wasn't what I wanted, you know, I had this vision, I had this idea as to what I wanted, and it certainly was the furthest it could have been from it. . So from that point, what happened was, I think it was a few weeks later, they then went off to another bike, a proper bike shop, which is another little story I'll come onto in a minute, which is, squares and circle of this, but went there and I got a racing bike. But the deal was, if I got the racing bike, I had to pay for it. Now I hadn't got the money at the time to pay for that. But what they did, they had a, you know, spiral reporters notebooks kind of thing that sort of about this big and spiral bound, they wrote at the top the price of this bicycle. And every time I did, whether it's a paper round, or working on a Saturday, or even washing the car, I would say to them, here's another pound, here's another two pounds off. And they were literally zero of the balance that was there and reduce the balance by the amount, I paid them back. So it was amazing at the time to actually go through all that. But what it taught me was if you want something badly enough, you can actually get it. But what happened for that was to actually show that you can work hard enough for something to get it and I think it proved to them. Actually, I'm quite determined. I stood my ground, but also I stuck to my side of the deal. There wasn't a kind of a gimme, where they said, 'Oh, actually, no, we'll just let you off that bit. We'll buy it for you anyway". It was I had to pay literally every penny for that bike. And it was ironic that some years later, it's about 10 years ago, cos' I've been in business running my own firm now since 1994. Mom and dad actually gave me this sort of present, I was like, what is this? opened it up. And it's the original receipt for the bike that they had framed. Because they think that that was probably what helped spur me on. Yeah, it's in your book.

Amanda: 8:00

Did you put it in the book yeah?

David: 8:02

Yeah. And it was amazing that they actually kept that. Yeah absolutely So it's really, really good. So what's in with the squaring of the circle is that I have a son who's currently 10. And it was time to buy him a new bike. So I didn't make him necessarily buy it. But my grandparents bought him a bike. And we got the bike from the very same bike store that mine first one came from. So he now has a bike with the same sticker from the supplier on it that I did. And it's just ironic how these things all come around isn't it? Which does teach you a very valuable lesson about money. Not great at the time, but probably one of the best ones I've ever had..

Amanda: 8:41

Yeah, absolutely. Now, you said there was also somebody else in your extended family who played a role in teaching you a bit about money in your teens. Can you tell us about grandpa's role?

David: 8:52

Oh, grandpa was great. Grandpa was one of these sort of people that.. he was always funny. He used to love watching some of the Christmas programs that were on and we used to laugh, like drains a lot of things, but he was always very preneurial shall we say and when he was retired, he still did a bit of part time work for a local car dealership. And he used to go and pick up the cars from the little old ladies when they came in for a service and that kind of stuff. And what used to happen was he was living down the South Coast and it was very, shall we say, older demographic around there. So lots of them used to trade in their cars. And they had very low mileage on them because these little old ladies used to potter around in them. But some of them needed a little bit of work doing to it and I have my first car so I was about 18 at this point. And I used to spend every day trying to wash them clean and polish these cars and do up my own car as you do when you're younger. So he had the idea of, and he said ..well if I get some of these cars that are coming for part exchange, I'll deliver it up to you. You can then polish it, make it look nice, sell it for a profit, and we'll split the profit, like okay. And he did so we had about three or four of these cars that we did. He delivered them up. I'd take it. He would know what he paid for it and so would I. I'd spend some money doing it up and then selling it on again at a profit. I'd then meet up with my grandfather again. And he would say, Okay, well, we paid, let's say 500 pounds for this car. What did you spend on it? I said about 50. He'll say right, okay, well, out of the 1000 pounds we've sold the car for There's your 50 pounds back, this lease 450. And that was half each. So we get 225 pounds each. And it was always done. And again, it wasn't done as a old. 'Don't worry about it grandson, you can just have the money anyway' it was done as a business agreement. And we stuck to it. And that taught me an awful lot as well. But he was one of those sort of typical sort of wheeler dealers. And what he was very good at which taught me a lot was relationships, creating relationships with people and just being.. I guess, a nice person to have a conversation with and, and the sort of the money we don't remember we'd say all the money will follow. If you do the right thing, the money will follow. And it's always stuck with me. So he always did the right thing. And the money did follow. And I've done exactly the same thing. But it's a lot about what we do with our clients. It's just about just sitting, listening, taking the time and creating that relationship. But it's got to be genuine, it isn't false. It's not based on if I pretend to like you, but I sell you something not that at all. It should be genuine and I love the job I do. Luckily, I really do. I love meeting new clients, I love meeting all the old ones, the relationships that we have, is fantastic. And we go through an awful lot with our clients lives, you know, we see the best, and we see the worst of their times. And we're very privileged to do that. But I think a lot of that came from my grandfather, just showing me that, you know, just just be nice to people is not difficult, but also that it's an entrepreneurial twinkle in his eye of well actually, if we do enough of the right stuff, the money will follow as well. So it's really invaluable stuff. I loved it. I miss him greatly

Amanda: 11:52

I bet I bet . Actually just this last couple of weeks in Australia, we've had the restrictions lifted and I've started seeing clients face to face again. And as much as I'd love to being in hibernation in lockdown, I'd forgotten how much I love the face to face and the chatting. So it's been lovely to get back to that. Now we know most people don't go through high school and walk out going that's it. I'm leaving school to become a financial advisor. It's still a tortured cause for many of us to get there. How did you end up as a financial advisor? What was your tortured cause to be the entrepreneurial business owner advisor you are now?

David: 12:30

Well, I left school I wasn't particularly good at the whole education thing. I didn't see the point of education, which sounds weird. Because I didn't know what I wanted to be. I had a lot of my friends at school that said, I'm going to be a lawyer, I want to be a doctor or whatever. So they knew what exams had to sit and where they're going to go. I was just going through life thinking I don't really know. So I wanted to leave school. It wasn't that academic. And my parents said to me both being teachers that when you're not really school until you've got a job. In other words, you're not going to laze around your house with us paying for it probably. So what happened was, exactly so I ended up getting offered actually two jobs, I was offered a management course at a bank. And at the same time, I was offered another job working within the stockbrokers locally. And I actually chose the stockbrokers purely on the basis that it was local and it paid more. And it was it was interesting. So I learned a lot there about dividends. I used to write I think it was hundreds of checks in a day. That was the days when you've actually, and my hand used to hurt at the of the day.

Amanda: 13:29

Whats a cheque David?

David: 13:31

A cheque. Yes, for the younger audience, it's something you had to promise to pay somebody for something on paper. But no, there are a lot of them consigned to history now. But I love doing that. And I've got my got the drift of how work works as it were on employment and got my first taste of money. We had compulsory overtimes when the stock market was doing really, really well. Compulsory overtime, earned loads of money, bought a car. But then there was a conversation that I had with somebody that was there. Because I was frustrated. I wanted to get on, I wanted to be the next level, the next level. And remember saying to the boss at the time, well look, you know, where do I get on. Oh in five years time you could be where I am. And I remember having almost like an epiphany at that point and going, actually, I don't want to be where you are in five years. I don't like the life that you've got, the people that you hang around with, which is all the people that work here, it's not what I want. So I ended up going into estate agency because I loved the people. And then from there, lost my job there because it all closed down in another recession and almost fell into financial services because the estate agency was this situation where if you run a branch of real estate, then you actually sell the house, you do the mortgage for the house, you do the mortgage for the person that you're selling the house for. And that gave me the intro to financial services for one of a better word. And then when that all sort of ended, I ended up falling into financial services because the guy that I used to know from that estate agency that headed up the financial services department there said you should come work with me. I've got so many clients it's really, sort of, easy money. So I did. I went to go and work with him for bit, only to find that things weren't quite so easy. And there was a few issues that I wasn't particularly happy with in terms of the way that things have been run and done. So I decided to go out on my own and do it my way, to give me the freedom of the relationships that I wanted to have, to give me the freedom to do the business that I wanted, and be me and not be shoehorned in. So, as like many people that end up in all sorts of careers, I think we all end up there a little bit by default, but you sort of find your own path, you find your own way, but you find kind of what makes you happy. And where you sort of feel naturally inclined to be. And that's where I feel that I am. I love the relationships of the people. I just happened to be in financial services, I could do anything. And I would like those relationships of those people that I deal with. So that was how I ended up in financial service. But I think most people in financial services, will end up here a little bit by mistake. At that very first conference that you mentioned earlier in Cairns, I did a show of hands, there was about 750 people in the room. And the first question I asked was, who and how many of you are here because this is what you've always planned to do when you leave school? How many hands went up?

Amanda: 16:02

None

David: 16:03

Two

Amanda: 16:04

Oh really?

David: 16:04

Two

Amanda: 16:05

Wow. OK

David: 16:06

Yeah. two hands went up. So two people out of room 750, were where they was supposed to be, the other 748 weren't. So it just goes to show..

Amanda: 16:12

I don't think I heard of the term financial advisor when I left high school.

David: 16:16

No, I just think that we do have sometimes the wrong reputation, the wrong preconceptions from from people that are looking at the outside, the public that, you know, the third parties, because it hasn't been a profession, which it is now It used to be called a whole industry before, it's more of a profession now more than it has ever been,

Amanda: 16:35

And still working on that too.

David: 16:37

Exactly, yeah. And we still got a long way to go. But the people like us that and the people that probably watch this video are all in the right sort of place, because we want to do the right thing. But I think historically, a lot of people have done the wrong thing to try and earn easy money. And the people that have suffered are the people, the clients. So we've got a lot of work to do to build up that trust, which is what we should be getting as financial advisors is that whole level of trust piece, but you know, it's our job to do it. And it's that trust to go out and do it and prove it. And I think we're slowly starting to turn the circle and there's light at the end of the tunnel, it's getting brighter. And it's a good position. It's a good business to be in. It definitely is.

Amanda: 17:14

So, a lot of people think that entrepreneurial path is, you know, you did this job, you did that job, you're leap frogging all the way along until things just keep getting better. What personal financial setbacks have you had on the way because being a business owner, I know it isn't all rainbows and unicorns and good times. So how has that path gone for you?

David: 17:34

Well, one of us was speaking earlier, when I lost the job at the estate agency. I had just recently bought a house. And I remember saying to the boss at this stage, so much better buy a house take on a big commitment for mortgage here, I just wanna make sure we're okay. Oh, yes, you'll be fine. You know, you're going places with us we we're only seeing the future's bright. Six months later, I was made redundant, and everything closed down. So I'm trying to pay for a mortgage. But what was interesting is and again, it comes back to relationships, one of the jobs that I had on a Saturday when I was busy trying to pay off for my bike, my car, and everything else I was doing. I worked in an electrical shop, a big chain over here. And I'd kept in touch with the boss that was there who had actually gone since to set up his own computer supplies business. Now at the time, it was just trying to think it must have been the sort of the late 80s I guess somewhere around there early 90s when computers and home computing was becoming a thing. So we wanted things like disk drives, we wanted printer cables, we wanted all the sort of consumables, and he did them. And he said to me, I'll tell you what I'll give them to you at sale of return, just at cost, you go and sell them. So I went off and took a load of stock from him. And I was getting up early on a Sunday morning at five o'clock in the morning. And I would go off and do boot fairs. Do you have them there in Australia?

Amanda: 18:52

Yes, car boot sales. Absolutely.

David: 18:53

Yeah, car boot sale. So I used to turn up with my car boot and set up a wallpaper pasting table and sell their stuff and then started creating something with this. I had a mailing list, I had people that would come and find me, I'd have orders coming in and it started getting really quite big to the point where within about six months of doing it I was earning more money doing that working a morning, a week than I was in my previous full time employed position.

Amanda: 19:20

So there's always a silver lining

David: 19:22

It does but it also shows you that if you look hard enough, you know, that you can find work and there's ways of making money and, and it's a big big training to go out there and do that yourself and have to get on with that and be slightly different to what you were doing before and not have this sort of all, well where was me, you know, I had this job and I'm too good for that. No, no one's too good for anything

Amanda: 19:41

I've waited tables myself. You just have to do what you have to do to make ends meet sometimes so..

David: 19:45

You do and I don't think you're any worse off from that. I think you're very much richer for the experience. And I love it. I wouldn't change a thing and often the memories that we have in our lives are often those ones that you punctuate with the things you're never going to forget for good or bad but invariably it's for good, and I think it shapes and mold you to be the person that you you end up being. But that was great. So yeah, you see redundant, you know I had, I had only had the one car. Couldn't go to interviews anywhere

Amanda: 20:10

You were a newlywed too at the time, when all this was happening?

David: 20:13

Yep. And we went down to one car, I couldn't then go to the job interviews that I was trying to get. Because I have no car to do it, you just find ways of doing it. So in the interim, before starting at the sort of financial services side of things, I was actually working for a school photography company. So when you go and have your children's photographs for school, then I was selling that, but I was only selling that because I got a company car, and having a company car meant I could get to interviews. So I used it as a leapfrog to get there. But one the day actually resigned, I was in there about six months, I think working with the photography company, I was the top salesperson. All did was just call all the schools, just be nice, turn up and just, you know, not trying to... And I end up getting loads of people that wanted to use us for the photography, and ended up there sort of their top advisor, whatever you want to call me at the time

Amanda: 21:03

Sales guy.

David: 21:04

So it is funny, but I had the company car. That's great.

Amanda: 21:07

Excellent. So even when you. I remember you telling a story about also, once you had the business up and running, and there were a lot of changes in legislation in the UK, you went through a rough patch there as well. So can you tell us a little bit about how that worked?

David: 21:21

Yeah, so over here, when I started with the chap that set me up, he sort of portrayed the idea, which I think is possibly one of the, sort of, biggest lies, I guess, in financial services. Oh it's easy money, you know, if you sell enough of this, that you can make this. And at the time, everything was commission based as well so at the time. So when I got there, we were selling this one product, it's called endowments, that we used to do alongside a mortgage, and you could do a few mortgages a month and advise on a couple of those. And actually, you would do okay. There wasn't much choice for anything else that was it. And then what happened? Was the government legislated against those being allowed anymore. So suddenly, a lot of my income source, 90% of my income disappeared overnight. So then you start looking at other things, and you think, okay, let's turn myself to pensions now, because they, they're still they can still earn money there. So I did that. And then that product changed. And it just felt like I was on this never ending cycle of whatever I tried to turn my hand to was being taken away from me. And through no fault of my own, you know, I was advising the clients to do the right things. But if there had been downward, if it was right for them, I was doing the right thing with a pension, what I wasn't doing is flogging loads of stuff to people that they didn't want need or wasn't any good for them. But because of a few people, the bad apples, everybody got tarred with the same brush. So the rug was being pulled out from underneath my feet without me actually realising it. And it kind of beats you down. So it got to the point with me where I was really struggling mentally. And I think a lot of people go through this, I didn't talk to many people about it at the time, because I thought, Oh, it's just a, you know, something I'm going through, we all have rough patches. But, what it meant for me was that I found it very, very hard to actually sometimes get out of bed in the mornings, I'd often be upset or close to tears alot of the time in terms of what was going on. Because I just couldn't control what was going on around me. And I just didn't, I thought, well, this is normal. But I looked at other people thinking, hang on a minute, you don't seem to have the same struggles that I do, so what's going on. And very, very long story short, but I eventually sort of tried different bits of help counseling, medication, all sorts of things, only to find that none of them really worked. Until I actually paid and I remember doing this, I remember saying, look, this is what I've had done. I wrote it all down on an email. This is what I've had, this is what I've been through, this is how I feel, can you help? And I literally copied and pasted this, I found all the top experts around in my region. And I sent an email because on the websites, you can do the contact me?

Amanda: 23:45

Yes.

David: 23:45

And I copied and pasted the same email to about, I think it was about eight different experts locally,here. So locally, within 30/40 mile radius, just see what happens. See what came back and somebody came back and said, actually, we'd like to talk to you. So, I went long and great expense. So spent 45 minutes with this guy, who then said, Well, actually, you've been treated for depression, and you haven't got depression, like, Okay, so I've just spent five years of my life getting treated and counsel for depression that haven't actually got. So what is it? Then he goes, Well, it's.. you're suffering from anxiety and panic attacks. I was like, ok, this is news. And he says, so for example, when this happens, you'll feel like that. And I went, yeah. And he said, and if you feel like this, then it makes you feel and I wen't aah, and for the first time, I thought somebody understands me. Now I can sort this out. And because it's always very, it's always very unnerving if you're feeling ill, and yet you're trying to get treatment for something, but especially when it's sort of something to do with your mental health because you can't see it. If I had a broken hand. You could see it and you'll go oh yeah, there's your broken hand and I can X ray and I can see exactly what you need to do. With mental health, it's a lot more complicated. So what happened with me I went for a bit of counseling, but it wasn't working quick enough for me because I'm a bit impatient when it comes to things like that.

Amanda: 25:01

Well I find that so hard to believe

David: 25:03

Well, there you go. So what I did was then I actually wrote another email because I thought the first one worked quite well. And I wrote another email just saying, right, this is my history. This is what I've been diagnosed with. And this is what it's all about. Can you help, and I sent it to about 10 hypnotherapists. So I've been watching a program, I like Darren Brown, and people like that, I just find them fascinating. And I think the human mind is an amazing thing. So I've sent it to about 10 hypnotherapist around the area with the same story and just almost to sort of throw it out there and see who comes back. And most of all came back, saying we're willing to help. One chap wants to come out of retirement to help me. But there was one that particularly fascinated me, and she was a lady locally, who I'm still in touch with today. And she said, I really want to help you but can we have a phone call? I just think it'd be good. And I was like, okay, so rang her up. And it turned out that her background was that she was a journalist. And as part of one of the newspaper stories that she was writing, she was researching hypnotherapists to prove what a shower that they were. And it was the whole things in your head. You couldn't get hypnotized. It's all just a stage show. It's all just crazy. And so she went off to go and research this. And in doing her research went to see a hypnotherapist as part of it. And this hypnotherapist changed her life. So she decided that she would do the same and stopped being a journalist and trained as a hypnotherapist.

Amanda: 26:27

Oh wow. Talk about conversion!

David: 26:28

So that lady saw me, and I have to say it is brilliant. For me, it worked really really well for me and works, different things work for different people. But it was probably the laziest therapy you can ever have. You lie back on the couch, you sort of fall asleep for a bit, or you think you do, and then you wake up, and think well, what just happened there? I remember saying to her once, well, I said I think I was asleep. Because you know when you go to sleep, your legs sort of flinch and things like that. So yeah yeah yeah, she said, you might have been, she said, but then why did you wake up when I said 5,4,3,2,1 open your eyes, you did. So okay, point taken. And anyway, so after a few sessions of that, it was brilliant. So it doesn't go away, I still get the thoughts and the feelings. But what it is, it's more that I'm a bit like going back to you control the money. I'm controlling the mind, not the mind controlling me. So I'm far more aware of it. I know the sort of what to watch for. I'm not completely insensitive everything. what it has done is given me a different view of other people, and maybe an appreciation for what other people might be going through, and invariably privately. So I can sort of spot signs now. Especially with the clients or friends or family that I'm talking to, I'm pretty perceptive at being able to spot things and, and check in on people to make sure they're okay. And have sort of other conversations. I've had some amazing conversations, one of them with a friend of mine. Most recently, I go skiing every year down in France that involves a 12 hour drive. And I was talking to somebody about all of this in the car. And it's amazing how many people that he knew, for example, that have gone through it, but also clients and things I've had people open up to me and just go actually, you know, to have someone understand this about how I feel. First of all, I know I'm not abnormal. Second thing, somebody else gets it. And it isn't just me. And it's okay to not be okay. And I think that there's a big thing that people should be talking an awful lot more on here we are. We're recording this now. And we're sort of in the middle of a pandemic, where I think there's going to be fall out of mental health from this, I've already started seeing it, and you can just read it even in some people's Facebook posts, you just see a change of mood and a change of feeling.

Amanda: 28:41

Also this week, you know, we're seeing the riots in America, people have been locked up for six or eight weeks, the riots over the wrongful death of George Floyd and other African Americans. So the massive outpouring, you know, over and above, I think the grief, the anger that is going on is also part of that fall out. And I know I've been privileged to be with you at conferences, after you shared your story to I think 14,000 people one time in Vancouver. I was there a year later when a gentleman approached you and was so grateful that you shared that story. And what a difference that have made in his life. And I know I got a little bit teary and choked up to, you know, hear the gratitude in his voice that made such a difference for him that someone was okay to be vulnerable and to say, people see the outside. I know you've got a presentation that you do on the BBC, you're seen in the media, and everyone thinks, oh, you know, isn't life rosey, but that's not always the case and to be able to be vulnerable enough to share that, I think is a very big gift. And you know, I thank you for the people I know you've helped by sharing that.

David: 29:46

Well thank you. Hopefully it has helped other people to be more open with it. I know that I've heard other people where I've met up with people afterwards that have been in tears and so on and I don't want to see anyone upset but I just think it may be gives permission for people to be more open. Cos' it is right, because I think a lot of what anybody does with their work, professional money with financial services or not, there's always this thing of when you first meet people. So how are you? How's work? Oh, it's busy. And this, this default answer is that we're always programmed to look, look at me, I'm very successful. I'm so successful, and everything's wonderful round me. Because we don't want to say, Well, actually, you know what, I'm having a really hard time, because people don't know how to react to that. But we should be reacting more, we should be able to be more honest with people, and we should have those conversations with people. And that's all I'm trying to do is to go out there and say, for goodness sake, talk, be yourself. And just, you'll be surprised how many other people out there can resonate with that. More so than you saying and being somebody that you're not, or certainly not how you're feeling. But it's just important that people should talk?Definitely.

Amanda: 30:47

Absolutely, absolutely. So, back to the financial part, which I know you've shared that at financial services conferences, I suppose one of the things people come to advisors for is, you know, I need advice. So what's the best financial advice you've personally been given? by somebody? Anybody?

David: 31:06

Rikey I mean, there's, there's all sorts of I think a lot of it is about taking, taking risks, if they're calculated, I think sometimes we're too frightened to do things. I'm very mindful, here I am. I'm early 50s. And, you know, my life is whizzing along. So what I don't want to do is to end up and we counsel clients with this as well, let's say, you know, later on down the line, and you're sort of on your deathbed, and you think, I wish I or should have or could have. Now, I'm not advocating for one moment that anybody goes off and spends money they haven't got because that's wrong. But to actually sit down and think about what their life's about, and what they want to get out of it, and how much they need to do that. Do they want to go on the big holiday with their families and parents before it's... not pushed too late, but I kind of mean it before it's too late. What is it you want to do? What is it you want to experience in life? I think for me, financial planning is all about that, not about the product. So people will come to me saying, Oh, I need to sort out my pension. It's like, you know, you don't want a pension. No one wants a bloomin' pension. You want what it does,

Amanda: 32:09

Yeah absolutely

David: 32:09

So if we can get to that, you know, no one wants life insurance. They want what it does. Yeah, it's all about getting to the bottom of it. And so what is it you want, and you actually need, but yeah, I would say have to have the opposite risk, because it make it's calculated, have a can do attitude. And if you work hard enough, and you're doing something that you're absolutely passionate about, then you're going to have some fun along the way, and you will make some money, and people won't mind if you do, I think you've got to be that sort of person where I remember turning up to go and see a client once and I had a.. I'm lucky, I've got a cousin that works for a very well known sort of car dealership brand. And I've turned up, I do it because it's just easy. I haven't got to think about it, he says, just take this car sign here and I'm done. And I get it all at staff and family rates, which is great. So I remember turning up to see a client once and it was almost, ooh someone's got a good car, you're obviously doing quite well. And I felt straightaway like I should apologize for that and go oh, yeah, it's okay. But oh, no, and I don't know where it can return it round its head straightaway. And I said, the last thing you should be doing is dealing with an unsuccessful financial advisor. Hahaha beautiful! Absolutely, since then, now what happens when I go and see him, he's like, oh, what car you got. He always wants to make sure I've got a better car than him because he knows that I'm aspirational. And if I turned up in some old wreck, he will probably be more worried. Yeah. I'ts about finding that middle ground. Now I wouldn't turn up in a yellow Ferrari. That's definitely not my style, but something that's smart.

Amanda: 33:36

You're 6 foot 4 David. You'd be unlikely to fit in a yellow Ferrari. That's true, six foot four, I definitely wouldn't. So that's the best advice you've been given to take that calculated risk, what's your top tip that you like to give to your clients?

David: 33:49

Be aware of what you're spending every month actually write things down. Very few people that I see actually have a budget planner or a spreadsheet of some sort. Money tends to just disappear. So I had a great expression that a client told me about the other days is a which is life gunk. Life gunk. And he said, Well, I suppose that goes well. You know, you take some money out. He said he might take out 10 pounds $10 or whatever to go and buy a paper or a coffee. And you've got the rest of the changes for 70% of it. Where does it go? It just disappears. stuff just happens. And it could be that you buy a beer with it. It could be that you lose it in the ... but just stuff cost you a lot more and that's if you if you actually allocate. I mean, there's somebody who I was sorting out with, had horrendous sort of financial problems. And she collected teapots. Okay, and she had this fireplace and I put a teapot about 6 teapots up in the fireplace, right? But a post there, that teapot is your electricity and your gas. So when you get paid, you take out cash you put that one in that teapot, this bit for your food in that teapot, this teapot for your petrol this and we labeled them all up I said and then you know what you've got to spend on each one. She said, I've never been aware of that before, I used to just spend it as I wanted to, and, and hope it will be okay. So I will say to people write a budget and be aware of what you're spending every month and keep an eye on what goes out your bank account, because you'd be quite surprised as to what you can spend on life gunk, or the takeaways or going out a lot. And if you're more aware of it, you'd know where you can cut down, whereas often people don't look at it and review it.

Amanda: 35:23

I remember when my son got his first job as an apprentice, and he wasn't saving anything. And I actually still had access to his bank account at that stage. And I looked up what he was spending on coffee and lunches, and he was spending$250 a week. But again, it was his first job

David: 35:38

A week?

Amanda: 35:39

A week! he'd never, I mean, his wage wasn't much bigger than that. But he had no clue because all of a sudden, he had earned money. And he could spend money, but had no idea where to what to do with it and how to track it. So, I think that gave him a massive slap in the face when I went right, sweetheart. This is where it's going, you know, you're eating it and you're drinking it, like, there's nothing left. So yeah,

David: 36:01

That was very hard.

Amanda: 36:03

Now you've got a son as well, your Harvey's a little bit younger than than my Mitch. So he's around 10, I think you said, Are there particular lessons that you want to leave Harvey with? In light of the fact that most parents don't talk to their kids about money at all, are you much more conscious about it and what do you want to share with him?

David: 36:20

I'm much more conscious of it. And I try and educate him with money as well. So he's always had this idea that if something breaks, it doesn't automatically get replaced. So he has to look after things, he has to value things and appreciate that things when you bought something and it could be from the bike, it could be an iPad, it could be whatever. But somebody somewhere has had to trade their time, effort and energy for money to provide that for you. And he knows that. So his iPad, it's never broken. He's never broken anything. Because he knows that if it gets broken, if it's not as an accident, if he's just been mistreating it or something, it doesn't just appear, there's a value to these things. So, delayed gratification as well. So he recently bought, I think it's called a hoverboard, whatever it is where you go like a Segway thing you stand on. He saved up for that.

Amanda: 37:11

How did he save? did he have to do chores around the house to get money or birthday money, how did he do it?

David: 37:15

No, he was given he wasn't didn't do chores around the house, he was given sort of money over birthday and Christmas over the last year or two. And he's just saved it. And there was a time when we were on holiday. And you know, when you're younger, if you've got given, we were given like 10, 20 pounds, I think by one of the grandparents. And where we go down in Devon, there's a toyshop, proper old traditional toyshop, which to him was like, so he goes in this toy shop and he's got his money. And it's like it's burning a hole in his pocket, he's like, I've got to spend it. It's like, look, you haven't got to spend it today. And it was just me and him in there. And he's oh, what about this car and I'll buy this car. But just slow down. Think about it, you've got so many of those things ready, you don't have to spend anything today, you could actually have what's called delayed gratification, but you could just buy something that might last a bit longer. And so we're like what, and actually what we found was one of these things that you can throw on the beach. It's like a rugby ball shaped thing with a fin on the ends that you throw in it whistles. And he bought that. The amount of fun that we've had with that and it must be four or five years old now. He still gets it out. He said, Daddy, I remember when we bought this in the toyshop, that you were talking to me about money. He's never forgotten it. Now this thing cost about 20 pounds. But it's that kind of thing. Now I'm not trying to stop him from having fun, far from it. But what I'm trying to do is just think a bit about what you're spending your money on. And be careful with your budgeting and make sure that whatever you buy might last. And you can also share with other people, you know, don't just buy another car because you've got 30 of them you want 31 that's not gonna make much of a difference to your life, but just have a think about it a little bit more. Well, when also the idea that you do need to work to exchange for money.

Amanda: 38:49

Yeah, what you've technically told him to invest in isn't the actual toy. It's the experiences that you're going to have with that, isn't it? So yeah, and that it lasts.

David: 38:58

Yeah, and also something that lasts is the other thing as well, because you have a car or whatever it might have been that you'd bought. It would have disappeared into , I don't know, a box of toys somewhere that would have disappeared, you probably wouldn't be but this thing it comes out every every year and we use it a lot. And he always remembers that story. But yeah, also if he wants to wants to work, he often asked me really deep questions about stuff. Often when we're driving in the car, he will just ask something. It's amazing what they take in. They do soak. I mean, the whole cliche, they're like sponges, they are. But it's fascinating talking to him and some of the conversations and what his worldview is. And obviously how he's growing up. He's gonna be 11 soon and it's amazing how he's changing in terms of what his worldview is, and his outlook and his attitude, which is brilliant to watch.

Amanda: 39:43

I remember you told me . I think he was about eight one time and he was looking out where you live. And I remember he expressed a beautiful comment of gratitude about we're really lucky, aren't we? So he is a bit of a deep thinker isn't he, young Harvey so

David: 39:56

Yeah, he is. Yeah, he is it was when he was sat on. I think he sat on a trampoline because we're lucky enough that we've got a field next door to, well you've been here. You've seen it, it's like a field next door. And he was sat on a trampoline, I was sat there with him. And he just said, he said that it's a we're really lucky, aren't we? And it was like, Yeah, Yeah, we are. But you know, it is luck. You know, it is hard work. It's his effort. And it's thought that gets you to these things, but he sees his other some of the other school friends have got bigger gardens then what we got and some of them have got smaller ones. And he's very aware. But I've always been very keen to show him that there are two sides to life. We took him up to a presentation from one evening up in London to go and see somebody off the television forgotten his name. Now, it's a television sort of wildlife presenter, really well known. He does Deadly 60 whether you got him there, who is that?

Amanda: 40:43

We've just never replaced Steve Irwin. We've just gone into...

David: 40:47

He's like, he's just like Steve Irwin, but the British version. Well, except he's better. But anyway, so he was doing a presentation up in London, and he had this great thing. It was the it was the best science lesson you could ever have. It was the best teacher ever. He's telling us all about sharks not being dangerous. And you know why people were fearful them anyway. So you're walking back, and we're really early for the train. And there was this homeless guy just on the side of the road as they are. And I thought, I don't think Harvey's ever seen somebody that's that's homeless before because he probably hasn't. So I just gave him some money. I said, just go up and just give this to him. He was like, okay. He said, why is that, I said, well, not everyone's got what we've got. So he goes up. And he goes on, he's very polite. He says, here this is this for you and then the person that's homeless, says, Oh, thank you ever so much, a have a really good evening like that. And we wandered on our way. And it just had a big profound effect on him and me, because I said, Well, you know, we're lucky, we're going home now and are trained to go home to a warm house. And he hasn't got that, and you have probably made a real difference in his life, that means he can go and buy a sandwich. And that I said is simple things, but to him, that is huge. So we have to make sure that we look after other people around us. It isn't all about our world, you know, we need to make sure that we do the right thing. And he's never forgotten that. And he was always very, very aware, since it is funny that you do these little things with people who are little people, what sticks up in here, and what they remember, that's the sort of one of the best lessons you can ever have is just showing them the real world and explaining your view of it. So they appreciate that it's not all there for them. You know, it's just to appreciate others, and he certainly does appreciate others, you're very thoughtful. He thinks a lot and says a lot. So I know he gets it.

Amanda: 42:29

Yeah, I'm glad that we've got a generation here that's actually teaching the next generation. So that's very, very cool that we're paying it forward, I suppose for one of a better word. Now, David, do you personally have a favorite form of investment?

David: 42:42

Yes, yourself. Honestly, I was never very good as I said, with school at the point, because I didn't see the point of it. I didn't know where I was heading. Now I'm kind of in this groove. And I found my niche, or niches I think some people say, it's about educating yourself and learning and being the best that you can be in a particular topic, especially something that you're passionate about, because it doesn't feel like learning. So I'm a huge advocate of coaching. I'm a huge advocate of reading books. I'm a huge advocate of going to conferences and learning from other people to become a sort of molded version better of yourself than you were before you went. So the best thing I can say to people is get your head in a book, there's books on everything, there's no excuse why you can't learn about anything anymore. somebody out there knows, it's never been more accessible. What with social media and the internet than it what it has been? It's easy now to get out there and learn stuff and try and educate yourself better. And I would think that's the best advice I can give anybody. And even even down to when I was doing the public speaking thing. The first thing I did, put myself on a public speaking course from somebody that knows how to do it. You know, I've been trained, I know now what to do. So it's it's not difficult, but it isn't easy either. Because it means that you got to make a bit of effort, but if it's worth it, and boy, is it worth it. So I would say invest in yourself and educate yourself.

Amanda: 43:58

I love that, you know, all the advisors in it that I interview, a financial product has never been once mentioned. I really love that. Now to take us out you just said books were a highlight for you. Do you have one single book that you would recommend to people, whether it's financial based, business based, personal development based, what would be your top tip to read

David: 44:19

Oh I've read so many books. There's as a whole bookshelf full of them all over there.

Amanda: 44:23

I thought they were cookbooks.

David: 44:25

Sorry?

Amanda: 44:25

I thought they were cookbooks.

David: 44:28

Well, I'm reading this one at the moment, which I'm really finding very, very fascinating. And it's this; Will It Make The Boat Go Faster? Now, it's something is particularly poignant with with you guys at the moment as well. It's the guy who's an Olympic Rower about how he got gold in the Sydney Olympics. And he wasn't an Aussie was he? No, he's a British rower. But what's interesting is that the rower Ben Hunt-Davis, he talks about, each chapter's broken down into his journey, about what he had to sacrifice and what he had to give up things. Like missing family weddings, having to go out a training run on Christmas Day, all these things that he did, the price that he paid to get the gold medal and what the headset and the mindset was like to go through that. But then as he outlines each chapter, then this other lady Harriet Beveridge, who's sort of a psychotherapists or something, then analyzes what he said, and why it meant so much and how it means and what how we can adapt it for ourselves. So it's a really powerful book and it's a nice, easy read. I like an easy read.

Amanda: 45:26

Okay.

David: 45:26

I like something I can just pick up and just go through. But there's countless books, but just pick up a book read it. Even if you're not really good at reading, there's loads of apps, I think we can read a book in 15 minutes if you like that.

Amanda: 45:36

Yeah, there's Blinkist or Audbile, and yeh so many options now...Highlight Reels.

David: 45:42

Yeah, and Audible is brilliant. Because you if you're in your car for any period of time, my commute every day is about 10 minutes, 15 minutes to the office, when the office is open. So each day, that's 20 to 30 minutes that I listen to a book. You add that up over five days, you got two and a half to two and a half hours of book reading in a day, in just doing your normal daily routine. So there's no excuse for people, you can pick up a book, even if you're listening to it.

Amanda: 46:06

Yep, absolutely. Well, thank you so much for sharing all your tips with us. David Braithwaite from Hildenborough. We appreciate that.

David: 46:14

Thank you for having me. It's been a pleasure. It's been brilliant. It's like I could chat for ages. You'd probably gathered.

Amanda: 46:20

Indeed. Well, thank you again, and I'm sure we'll catch up another time.

David: 46:24

Yeah, thank you very much.

Outro: 46:27

And that was another episode of financial Secrets Revealed. Thank you so much for joining me. I hope you got some nuggets of wisdom out of that guest and enjoyed listening to their story. If you'd like to know more, please reach out to me my contact details are in the show notes, or hunt down your favorite bookstore to find financial Secrets Revealed and learn more for yourself. I look forward to hearing from you.